<p>My philosophy has been to have d apply to full need schools (but now I see how much that varies in practice), schools where she has a good chance of getting merit aid, and a state school with low tuition. And of course these have to be places where she would be a good fit and where she'd benefit academically.</p>
<p>Lately she has gotten interested in Wesleyan, but I had the impression they give minimal aid. Now I see some folks got good aid there.</p>
<p>I figure we can then see where she gets in, what the packages are, try to negotiate better deals, and then decide where to go.</p>
<p>But this plan doesn't work if full need means mostly loans - or the merit $ is so limited that our cost is about the same.</p>
<p>There's a lot to sort out - Thanks again, everyone!</p>
<p>"For example, Curmudgeon is self-employed. So when he says that Yale and Amherst were the least generous, it may be that those colleges had specific policies related to self-employment income and/or deductions that ended up hurting him. But some other applicant who is not self employed might end up with a more generous award."</p>
<p>It's a good example, but, for us, manifestly false. The different schools in our case were COFHE schools, claiming to figure out financial need in exactly the same way. We had no self-employment, no medical expenses, no unusual sources of income, an inexpensive home, no deductions (we don't even itemize) and a very, very simple tax return.</p>
<p>Opposite of curmudgeon's experience - Amherst was and still is the best! A am paying MUCH less than I ever thought, and way less than our state uni. Our state uni was worst, then, Trinity (SA) was second worst, then U of Chicago was thirsd worst. Turned them all down for Amherst and even tho I thought I had underpaid first semester, due to their calculations, we even have a credit!</p>
<p>that's the whole point. There is nothing that can be learned from this exercise, other than the fact that the plural of anecdote is not evidence.</p>
<p>
[quote]
that's the whole point. There is nothing that can be learned from this exercise, other than the fact that the plural of anecdote is not evidence.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>maybe one other thing - be happy to attend any school you apply to and try to apply to one low tuition school.</p>
<p>Remember, when the acceptances come in, the FA offers come with them or follow shortly. You then need to sit down and weigh them carefully. What you really need to do is bottom line it - what will I be out of pocket? Schools add estimated book and travel costs to the mix, and some don't. You will still be out those sums, so make sure you factor everything in. And make sure you meet your deadlines - some people have had problems getting enough aid because they didn't have their info ready on time, or because what they had submitted wasn't enough, thus making the school's offer insufficient. If they want something additional, make sure they get it in a timely manner.</p>
<p>Quote:
"that's the whole point. There is nothing that can be learned from this exercise, other than the fact that the plural of anecdote is not evidence. </p>
<p>maybe one other thing - be happy to attend any school you apply to and try to apply to one low tuition school."</p>
<p>(someday I will figure out how to put box around quoted material; don't see formatting button; D can probably tell me)</p>
<hr>
<p>I would like to add-- apply to dream school even if it seems financially out of reach. You won't know how bottom line stacks up until you have FA offers.
__
Question: Do any schools offer needs-based aid when FAFSA EFC exceeds estimated COA? Mabe this is a ridiculous question. I supposed federal finaid couldn't be part of the package. But do some schools tap a lower % of assets/incomes even with no unusual expenses? Is this something I can figure out with close perusal school's web site or subscription to US News or some other service?</p>
<p>By the way, from what I've heard, acceptances can occur a LOT sooner than the award package, since FAFSA's aren't generally due until 2/1/07 or later at most schools. I've had friends whose kids were being asked to make a commitment without having all award packages from all their schools. This really makes it tough.
When schools really want a student, they have the option of making more of the award package grants instead of work study/loans (providing the school has the resources).</p>
<p>
[quote] mini wrote:It's a good example, but, for us, manifestly false. The different schools in our case were COFHE schools, claiming to figure out financial need in exactly the same way. We had no self-employment, no medical expenses, no unusual sources of income, an inexpensive home, no deductions (we don't even itemize) and a very, very simple tax return.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If I recall correctly, however, mini's family did have at least one potential wrinkle: a parent planning to attend nursing school. </p>
<p>Colleges differ in how they treat educational expenses for parents. </p>
<p>It used to be that colleges would treat a parent attending college in exactly the same way as a sibling attending college (by roughly splitting the EFC between the two, either 50/50 or 60/40.)</p>
<p>More recently, a number of colleges have decided to treat parental higher ed expenses differently from sibling college expenses. For example, some just deduct the parent's own tuition expenses from the family income before assessing the family contribution.</p>
<p>There are other differences in how colleges treat EFCs if the other member of the family (whether parent or sibling) is attending a college with much lower tuition than their own college's tuition.</p>
<p>So nothing is really cut-and-dried, no matter how simple one's finances might seem initially.</p>
<p>I don't see anywhere on the website that the COFHE institutions claim to "figure out need in exactly the same way," despite mini's assertion that they do.</p>
<p>Indeed, some of the colleges on the list have made explicit statements to the effect that they use a formula different from other institutions. </p>
<p>For example, Princeton is a COFHE college and they don't count home equity at all. Others on the list have formulas that limit the extent to which they count home equity, but they do count it, at least partially.</p>
<p>Some COFHE institutions now have stated policies that families with incomes below X will have a zero EFC, but X differs from institution to institution (45K, 50K, 60K.)</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, COFHE members do not claim to use a common methodology.</p>
<p>Many (but certainly not all) members of COFHE are also members of the 568 group which "seeks to eliminate much of the variance in need analysis results that has been experienced in recent years," but even they do not claim to "figure out need in exactly the same way."</p>
<p>Point taken (in fact, the sleight of speech in the language was placed there explicitly to deal with the lawsuit that prevented them from more overt "collusion" - instead, their financial aid officers go to workshops together so they can informally collude.)</p>
<p>But it doesn't matter. The offers are all over the map...and of course the higher the list-price, the better the offer appears.</p>
<p>I think the best approach to finding the "most generous" schools (and it isn't perfect) is to find (from the college's common data set) the amount they say they give in need-based aid, and divide by the total student body (not just those who receive aid, but the total). That way you end up with an algorithm that combines both "most need per student aided" and "most students found to have need".</p>
<p>The results are somewhat surprising. (last time I did this, and it was several years ago, 7 of the top 10 among prestige schools were not so-called "need-blind" schools, and Princeton was the only Ivy to crack the top 10, at number 9.)</p>
<p>"Okay, so here's my next try. mini's family lives in a relatively low cost-of-living part of the country."</p>
<p>Housing prices here are exactly at the national median. Food and energy are slightly higher than the median.</p>
That's not how COFHE works. The 568 Group schools have an agreement in which they will treat certain assets & income similarly, but they haven't agreed on all things. In other words, when you apply to a 568 Group school, it means that each will look at element A,B,C,D, & E the same, but each is still free to do their thing on elements H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P.......</p>
<p>When they get together to meet and discuss, they are working on ironing out further agreements on all the areas where they are not yet in agreement. They have a very long way to go, because while they have agreed on a few of the most common factors, there are many more areas where they are not in agreement.</p>
<p>Vassar used the Profile and counted home equity, they had our EFC about $20k more than the other schools. Other private schools used FAFSA and one public (UVA) asked about home equity & other Profile info, but was very generous: UVA, UCs, Baylor were very generous. As I recall all the schools had a similar amount of loans, as if there is some standard amount subsidised that all schools feel you should be borrowing. If you have significant home equity, which is easy to do in some towns with rising housing prices, you may see a much larger contribution expected at a Profile school.</p>
<p>We also got a nice offer from USC, but were leery of the rumored year 3 increases in loans and decreases in grants. Some people have said this happened to them, some have not had the problem, so I would say to simply ask USC about it.</p>
<p>GOB, your question has been answered as best any of us can. I'm sorry you don't like the answer -- honestly, none of us do either. There is so much variability among the schools & depending on how much they want the particular student.</p>