<p>Most of the top schools limit college apps to around 8.</p>
<p>When you see one going to Princeton, one to Stanford, etc., there's just such a good chance at a boarding school that they are legacies or athletes. </p>
<p>I also wouldn't excect "hints" from the schools about where aid goes. It is their mission to get as many completed apps as possible to appear more selective.</p>
<p>I wonder about approaching this looking for schools where your kid will be in the top 10%. There is such a mix of kids (smart but troubled, rich but dumb) at second tier schools that it's very hard to predict by SSAT scores. I also wonder if you're doing a child a favor letting them go somewhere they won't have to work too hard to be at the top. That may not bode well for college or real life.</p>
<p>I would look at the schools below AESD, but maybe just the next 20, after that I'd consider moving to a good public school district.</p>
<p>Agreed. Two of the nicest people I know are NMH grads. </p>
<p>I think it's helpful to talk about your personal experiences with specific examples, but not helpful to make sweeping generalizations and extend those generalizations to hundreds of schools.</p>
<p>blairt -- the son you are thinking of (the one that takes Arabic) is my older son. He did apply to numerous schools but has decided to attend the United World College of the Atlantic for the next two years. Exeter would have been a good choice for him -- I just am not sure if it would be a good fit for my younger son.</p>
<p>collegekid -- I think it is at least worth asking about the FA. It will be interesting to see what the responses are. So far I have only spoken with Midland and I felt that their response was honest, but rather general. considering they don't do competitive athletics -- their response makes sense.</p>
<p>As far as not having to work so hard to be at the top 10% -- I can see your point, but I can guarantee that he would not be at the top 10% (or top 20%) at schools like Andover and Exeter no matter how hard he works. I think he just needs a slightly different environment.</p>
<p>and how do you know what are the "next 20"? I can see where the schools just below the top 10 would be good to look at, but I don't know of any legitimate ranking of the boarding schools -- it all seems random. If you base the ranking on college placement, you run into that legacy, athletic recruit issue again.</p>
<p>steph, if I'm recalling correctly the kid we are talking about you describe as not going to be NMF, not an athlete and has no hook. Therefore we can pretty much eliminate AESD and the next 10. What I'm suggesting is that you consider how far down you want to go before considering a better school district. Most of the kids I know would only go to a BS if they got into a really good one that would outweigh the disadvantages of leaving home. </p>
<p>I understand a great athlete going to a school that's a fit for their sport, an artist going to an art academy but a bright well rounded kid going off to a boarding school that's iffy, who hasn't been kicked out of his current school, just doesn't sit right. This isn't college, everyone doesn't have to pick one. What about your local privates?</p>
<p>collegekid -- yes, that is how I would describe him compared with some of the particularly outstanding kids you read about on CC. He is one of those well-rounded, hard-working, high achieving students -- but doesn't have a clear passion yet. I am just wondering what list you are referring to? I am not sure what the "next 20" or so boarding schools would actually be. </p>
<p>He will be apply to one local private (we only have one) but FA there is pretty much non-existent and I wouldn't call it a great "fit". He would have a hard time finding a group of friends -- the same kids attend since kindergarten and most of the kids (with a few exceptions) are children of the elite families in town. Other local high schools are out -- we don't live in district and can't pay the rent to live in those districts -- plus they still have the large classes and limited ability to participate in activities. there is an excellent charter school -- but he has been on the waiting list for three years and isn't even close to the top.</p>
<p>It would be really great if he got into the local boarding school -- but we won't know until this spring.</p>
<p>I agree that his local public school is better than some of the boarding schools I have learned about -- but I don't think that is true for all of them outside the top ten.</p>
<p>Why did you choose to go to boarding school -- was it athletics? Did you think it was a good choice?</p>
<p>What do you see as the main disadvantages of BS?</p>
<p>D applied to BS primarily for a change fromuber-compet Manhattan girls' day sch she had attended k-8. I had never considered BS, but when I observed that it was a popular option among D's peers, primarily b/c there is very little attrition among the top day schs, particularly the top co-ed schs in Manhattan. </p>
<p>Addit, D is an athlete and for her sports (track and swimming) BS made sense. In Manhatan, swim and hockey practice are always early b/c pool and ice time are in such great demand. And for D's field events (jumps and throws), there was really only one uptown venue. BS, however, offer these facilities on-site.</p>
<p>I can't say the academics were all I hoped they would be (not nearly as many course offerings as the more well-endowed and more rigorous day schs), but D was certainly more of a "star" at the BS than she would have been at her day sch. On the other hand, even the bottom of the class at her day sch attends top 50 colleges - - but I think D like being a bigger fish in a less compet pond.</p>
<p>If I had it do do again, I'm certain we'd go the BS route again, but I'd enroll D in a diff school (more compet, fewer than 10% day students, maybe a little bit larger).</p>
<p>nyc --thanks for the comments! Your D sounds like my son (he also does track). He is interested in small schools -- but you are correct, that generally means less class choice. Something I think we really need to talk about. My son definitely wants to be the big fish in a small pond.</p>
<p>Steph, I ended up not getting into a top BS, but by the time letters came I had a foot out the door and really wanted to get away and get a better education. My public wasn't dangerous, but I would have finished the toughest classes mid way through 10th grade.</p>
<p>Given the borrowing my parents ended up doing and the level of school I ended up at, sports were the only things that make me glad I did it. If I had not been an athlete I would never have gotten into a top college even being very near the top. The legacies and the rich had a lock on the ivy spaces except for those that went to athletes. </p>
<p>I also stand behind my statement that there are a lot of messed up kids when you get below top schools. So many kids who needed to leave town or leave home. They were not the kind of kids who are here on CC. Hey, it's hard to type when you're drunk or high. Think about it, why are people spending 40K/yr to send their kids to a BS nobody ever heard of? Because, it many cases, it's a cheap price to pay for not having to deal with troubled kids.</p>
<p>If my parents could have moved they would have and brought me home after frosh year when the roomate I asked to be moved from got kicked up for having 4 types of drugs in our room. He got into a better rated school after that.</p>
<p>"steph, if I'm recalling correctly the kid we are talking about you describe as not going to be NMF, not an athlete and has no hook. Therefore we can pretty much eliminate AESD and the next 10."
Sorry, but simply because YOU didn't get into one of them without being an URM, athlete, legacy or hook, doesn't mean they don't take them. We know many kids that are going to one of them next year simply because they are good, well rounded students. Some on financial aid, some not. Obviously, your chances are better if you fall into one of the above catagories, but I would not say you can "pretty much eliminate" them. </p>
<p>I'm sorry that you got stuck with a roommate that had issues. Doesn't mean that all "second tier" schools are "full" of problem kids. Why spend $40k on a school no one has heard of? Because by and large it IS a better education than most public schools in many ways. Independant schools will offer opportunities that even the best public schools can't offer. And it's the right "fit." </p>
<p>NYC- the schools may not ENCOURAGE 15 college applications, but i do know that they, by and large do not DIScourage it either. If you want to apply to ALL the IVY's and you get in to all of them, that's fine by them, it makes their stats look better.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I also stand behind my statement that there are a lot of messed up kids when you get below top schools. So many kids who needed to leave town or leave home. They were not the kind of kids who are here on CC. Hey, it's hard to type when you're drunk or high. Think about it, why are people spending 40K/yr to send their kids to a BS nobody ever heard of? Because, it many cases, it's a cheap price to pay for not having to deal with troubled kids.
[/quote]
I sure hope you get past your negative experience at BS someday. It seems to have colored your outlook on life or at least your posting record on CC would indicate that.</p>
<p>I just don't think projecting your negative experience on the whole of second tier boarding schools is particularly productive in this discussion.</p>
<p>It is patently false that second or third tier</p>
<p>
[quote]
Independent schools will offer opportunities that even the best public schools can't offer.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Good public schools have more varied course selection, typically better opportunities in the arts, and a broader spectrum of students, with typically more bright students than the mediocre privates.</p>
<p>In the less prestigious independents, the student body is not comprised of the "brightest students", but those who might benefit from smaller classes and more help. There are typically fewer courses from which to choose.</p>
<p>There are compelling reasons for some people to choose to spend $40k for secondary school, if their children have certain needs, but let's not pretend that all these schools are in any way better than a good public school. That's folly.</p>
<p>"Good public schools have more varied course selection, typically better opportunities in the arts, and a broader spectrum of students, with typically more bright students than the mediocre privates."</p>
<p>We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Because I will hold firm that what you say is, in your words, "patently false" as a general statement. </p>
<p>For every kid there is a "best" school. For some it is public, for some not. By and large, all things equal, independant schools have more to offer than public schools. Yes, you will find exceptions, but even most of the "second tier" independant schools have more to offer than most (notice I did not say all) public schools.</p>
<p>In a local independent school, a second tier one, but still very competitive in admissions, I witnessed an eighth grade geography class in which the majority of the students were unable to locate and identify even their own home state on a US map.</p>
<p>Allmusic -- I think that you would find that the answer really depends on what the student is looking for and the individual public high school.</p>
<p>I have no doubts that there are many excellent public schools that do indeed offer far more than many of the second or third tier independent schools. However, there are also many, many public schools that offer far less -- especially those schools that are subject to overcrowding and severe budget cuts.</p>
<p>This is where it is critical to evaluate the student and the local public possibilities. For my son, he is evaluating the local public in the same light as the boarding schools he is considering. While I am fairly negative about the suitability of the public high school for him, I am trying to project a positive attitude for my son -- he may very well have to attend the public school if he does not recieve enough FA to make BS feasible.</p>
<p>As far as geography -- you can certainly find that level of expertise in your local public school (but at least that knowledge came cheaper). The majority of kids in my son's class thought that the American Revolution was fought against the Spanish -- and he had a hard time convincing them otherwise.</p>
<p>Like I said, AllMusic, there are exceptions. I can give you examples of many many public schools like that and many many private schools that are exceptional in their knowledge.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are compelling reasons for some people to choose to spend $40k for secondary school, if their children have certain needs, but let's not pretend that all these schools are in any way better than a good public school. That's folly.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course, as stef has pointed out, you have to have a good public school available to you...</p>
<p>I know that in our local public middle school (the one with the best test scores in the county - a county with a top-40 public university), my daughter used to take the occasional nap through one class (where she didn't even have to take the final because she had pegged the A) and she is not a rocket scientist. </p>
<p>Quite frankly, the level of teacher involvement with the kids in the overcrowded classrooms (smallest class was 30) was slowly destroying her intellectual curiosity over the 3 years she was there (since we relocated from a state with far better public schools).</p>
<p>After 1 year at one of these $40K second-tier "schools that nobody ever heard of" her level of engagement in school work is makedly improved. She has even talked about things she learned from time to time this summer (which never happened while in public school).</p>
<p>Of course, in this part of the country, people with money send their kids to local private day schools, the most prestigious locally costing about 2x what my final cost (after FA) for my D's second-tier school up north. Oh, and BTW, the headmaster at that top local private day school is an alum of my D's school.</p>
<p>No question, Linda. You had stated previously that any independent was better than even the best publics, and that is the point that is patently false.</p>
<p>There are certainly plenty of awful public schools. But there are also awful independent schools. And a good public school is better than a bad independent school any day, so parents should be aware that just because something is expensive, it isn't necessarily better, and in some cases, it is actually worse (depending on the kid---for needy or learning disabled children, the smaller class will always be an improvement...this is not so for kids at the other end of the spectrum....then the big public will invariably offer more).</p>
<p>But to the OP, looking carefully at all your options, public and private, makes sense.</p>
<p>I didn't say all....sorry if read like that...
here is what I said...
"*I'm sorry that you got stuck with a roommate that had issues. Doesn't mean that all "second tier" schools are "full" of problem kids. Why spend $40k on a school no one has heard of? Because by and large it IS a better education than most public schools in many ways. Independant schools will offer opportunities that even the best public schools can't offer. And it's the right "fit." *"</p>
<p>For ANYONE looking at all the options available to you - public and private - makes sense. It is all about the best match. I don't think that you have to be "needy or learning disabled" to benefit from a smaller class. Bright kids who need to be challenged will also benefit from small classes. My son is not "needy" but certainly would not do well at a place as big as Andover or Exeter. **Could **he do the work? Absolutely. **Would **he in that environment? Maybe. I don't think that makes him needy though. </p>
<p>In any case....Stef have you narrowed down and/or changed your list any?</p>