<p>Oh, I think many kids can benefit from the smaller class too. However, without intellectual peers, the size of the class is moot. Very bright kids need to have intellectual peers, and many of the second and third tier schools often don't have those (at least in my experience). The bigger and better publics usually do (at least that has been our experience).</p>
<p>I did not mean to hijack, and wish everyone the best of luck in finding the best fit and match for their own child.</p>
<p>Linda -- this thread certainly went off on many tangents and I keep getting really good advice. </p>
<p>We really haven't narrowed the list down much -- I guess we are going to wait for visits to do that. I did eliminate a few schools that had been on the list, but I was wavering on -- we took off Tabor, Holderness, Putney, Middlesex and Proctor. It was a combination of lack of an outdoor emphasis (something he really wants) and the FA stats for the school.</p>
<p>However -- he is seriously considering adding one or two of the top ten schools. His concern is financial aid (and some of the comments on problem kids is starting to bother him). We keep wavering on whether it would be worth at least applying to the one or two that appeal to him most.</p>
<p>so far, our list (grouped by areas to visit):</p>
<p>California -- Thacher, Midland
Colorado -- Fountain Valley
Wisconsin -- Conserve
Mid -South -- Asheville
East Coast -- Mercersburg, NMH, St. Andrews DE, Millbrook</p>
<p>We are really reconsidering Conserve and Asheville -- both look like great fits and good FA, but the visit there will be expensive and it would just be to see one school. Both schools require a campus visit to apply. Even with a cheap plane flight, a subcompact rental car and a night at a cheap motel -- and just son and I -- it would cost us ~$700 for each visit, which is really a ton of money for us. At least with the other visits, we would be seeing more than one school. I can definitely see why schools tend to get the majority of their applicants from the surrounding states.</p>
<p>He is going to take a look at some of the top boarding schools and see what he thinks -- and I will look at the FA info on them.</p>
<p>Allmusic -- you didn't hijack the thread at all and your comments are welcome. It helps to be reminded that not every BS is as good as the local public. The pretty viewbooks and fancy websites can make you lose perspective sometimes! Your comment on class size and peer group was on point and something to consider -- it is one of the issues my son currently has. His classes are large -- but the peer group is definitely lacking. Really, at his school there are very few boys that are interested in academics -- most are girls -- and he really struggles to find kids to be friends with. I wouldn't want to put him in a BS and find the same problems.</p>
<p>stef,</p>
<p>Maybe I'm a bit road trip nuts, but have you considered driving to Wisconsin?</p>
<p>It's about 1000 miles each way. Personally, I drive my Daughter to school which is slightly further in one day and have returned the next. And I've rented a car to do it (I've found local rentals - not at airports - for about $15 a day) and can do the trip to school on about $250 in gas round trip.</p>
<p>Of course, this is not for the untested. It took me years of practice on shorter (700 - 800 mile day trips) to work up to it. </p>
<p>Next week I have 2 1200 mile day trips scheduled for a hockey camp.</p>
<p>YMMV, of course.</p>
<p>goaliedad -- we were planning on driving to California (~18 hours each way) but for some reason, I thought that Wisconsin was further -- it isn't, it is also 18 hours away.</p>
<p>My H and I are veterans of long roads trips (conversion van and pop-up camper from past years where we had some extra money and he got 4 weeks vacation a year) so we know it is doable. Probably the biggest issue is time off -- my H gets only a week or so vacation and I know I can't do that kind of driving myself. Also -- the van is probably the only car for that kind of distance driving and it needs some work, so we need to decide whether to trade it in on another car or do the work -- but we have to do that anyway in order to make the trip to California. I might look into the rental car idea.</p>
<p>Asheville is ~23 hours away -- but I just don't think that the van or myself are up to three road trips like that!</p>
<p>I will take a look at comparing the cost of plane tickets and rental car vs. driving when it comes to Wisconsin -- for that matter, it may be cheaper to buy a plane ticket to California from Colorado and make Wisconsin the driving trip -- I just need to schedule the trip to Wisconsin early enough that weather won't be an issue.</p>
<p>Stef,</p>
<p>I've discovered that for trips of 2000+ miles done in a weekend, the difference between a typical minivan (we have one with 100K on the clock) gas mileage of 24 MPG hwy and a subcompact (think Ford Focus or Pontiac Vibe) getting 33 MPG hwy will yield you about $50 - $60 in gas savings, about enough to pay for the car rental!</p>
<p>Yes there is a little comfort tradeoff in some cars, but not as much as I thought for the roads I drive.</p>
<p>I guess the problem with Conserve is that it is soooo far away from an interstate that the miles tend to slow down a bit. We lived in Wisconsin a few years back and I've had the experience of driving a few of those 2-lane highways.</p>
<p>I hadn't thought about the saving on gas mileage -- we have a conversion van, so our MPG are closer to 17. </p>
<p>The distance that Conserve is from us is also a cause for concern if he would attend school there -- it would be a real hassle for him to come home for breaks, from what I can tell. It also seems like the majority of the kids come from Wisconsin and the surrounding states, which means they will be going home with less hassle.</p>
<p>On the otherhand, Conserve is working hard to establish itself as a good boarding school, so they might be very generous with FA to bring in a solid stats kid from Colorado -- and the class selection and environmental emphasis is a perfect match for what my son is looking for with college placement very good for top 25 schools. If Conserve were just a little easier to get to, I think it would be a clear number one on my son's list -- so it will be worth the drive to check it out.</p>
<p>Deerfield is less than a half hour from NMH so you could easily add that to a visit when you are in this area. Fly into Hartford, visit DA and NMH, in one day, drive to Millbrook and then head south to Mercerburg and St. Andrews. </p>
<p>Don't let the "problem" children comments get to him. NMH is full of bright well rounded students. I'll PM you.</p>
<p>boardingschoolreview.com and the school's catalogues.</p>
<p>Allmusic, it's hard to argue with someone who has a kid at a school they feel you're insulting. I'm surprised everyone reads my posts as bitter. I'm not bitter, I ended up developing a sport in a way I never could have at home and got into an ivy where I am happy and confident of my future. However, how I got here was more luck that a good strategy. No one I knew could tell me anything about the schools or what I would encounter there. A half day visit will surely not let the average person see the huge gap between Andover and a second tier with decent facilities which is why they are all building new facilities. Have your kid stay overnight at the schools and take in dorm life and really see who the kids are. As for NMH, it's fact that they've had a lot of trouble filling up for a decade. Closed one campus and still have trouble filling up and take kids well into the summer. To fill up these schools overlook a lot.</p>
<p>Anecdotes about the lot of kids you know who got into Exeter with aid for being well rounded are old wives tales, no pun intended, and are refuted just by reading on this site.</p>
<p>I'm pretty much the only one posting here about schools below the top and I think people should understand what a drop off there is. A few months ago I met a counselor that my cousin was taken on by pro bono. She does a lot of placements for kids coming out of therapy schools. She told me how common what I saw at a decent school was. She told me of the schools she fed kids into and were open to kids who had had major troubles with drugs and all sorts of things. It was pretty surprising how many of the schools she mentioned would never let on that they did such a thing. When I told her my druggie roomate's parents had actually bought his way into a better thought of school she was unphased.</p>
<p>Clearly in being this open I don't want to identify the school I went to. Since anecdotes are allowed I'll share one. I know a kid who was interviewed at NMH coming out of a year at a $8K/month therapy school. He was asked if he would ever do drugs again, and having learned honesty at the last school he said maybe, you never know. He was rejected but several kids from his therapy school who were less honest and answered no to whether they would repeat their past wrongs got in. They are all of course full pay. Many don't last at the schools.</p>
<p>Allmusic is not insulting a school my kids go to. He/she was generalizing ALL second tier schools. We disagree. Not a problem. </p>
<p>"Anecdotes about the lot of kids you know who got into Exeter with aid for being well rounded are old wives tales, no pun intended, and are refuted just by reading on this site."</p>
<p>FYI- they are not anecdotes. They are FACTS. I personally KNOW the kids. Not someone told me about them. I know them. Not just Exeter. I know several kids this year who were accepted to Deerfield - same thing - no hook, no legacy, at athlete, etc. Sure, I also know the legacy with not such good grades that got in and also the A+ 98% SSAT, good at b'ball (probably not NBA quality, but starter material likely) who did not.<br>
The number of people who actually post on this site is pretty low. It's NOT admissions professionals at the schools, it's mostly kids (no offense, I personally have gotten a lot from reading many of the posts by them), but it certainly is in now way accurate indication of proof of anything.</p>
<p>Didn't you say you were local for Deerfield? That makes a world of difference. And Linda, your information is anecdotal and has no statistical validity which is also true of the anecdote I shared.</p>
<p>Attending BS is very diff that being at home w/ your own parents, so what might be an "ordinary" problem at home may seem (or in fact be)extraordinary at BS. And there are disadvantages to not having a parent advocate (no excused "mental health" absences for boarders, no Mommy to call and excuse you from outdoor PE when the weather turns bad, etc.). These are legit concerns.</p>
<p>"Problem" kids, however, are everywhere, including top public, top day and top boarding prgms. But, if you're worried about too many problem kids, check the catalogue: does the sch have a special therapuetic prgm, does the sch accept a psych eval in lieu of SSAT or ISEE, are the classes primarily standard college prep or are there lots of "watered down" courses ("Chemistry in the Community" as opposed to standard chem; "Conceptual Physics" instead of standard physics; algebra II offered over 3 semesters instead of the standard 2 semesters; how many math electives beyond pre-calc, etc.).</p>
<p>As for NMH a fine sch, but I was troubled by all the PG students (isn't NMH know for having a particularly large PG prgm). Interestingly, at D's BS most PGs were from suburban publics.</p>
<p>"Didn't you say you were local for Deerfield? That makes a world of difference. And Linda, your information is anecdotal and has no statistical validity which is also true of the anecdote I shared."</p>
<p>Not exactly local to Deerfield. In the general vicinity. However, for day students it is more competitive than boarding. This year there were 5 boy day student openings at DA for the 9th grade. </p>
<p>No, my information is not statistically valid in that it is not a study done and I can't tell you what percent of kids get in that are "simply" well rounded smart good kids. I can simply say that it HAPPENS. You were saying that it NEVER happens. If you are not an athlete, a hook, an URM, or a legacy, you don't get into AESDCH. And, that you also don't FA there unless you are an athlete, hook or URM. I was just saying that it is possible because I personally know of kids that it has happened to.</p>
<p>You guys are splitting hairs. I believe AllMusic's "never" is short-hand for an event that occurs so rarely that it lacks statistical signif.</p>
<p>No, I'm now referring to Collegekid who has said on more than one thread that no one ever gets financial aid at a "top" school unless you are an URM, a hook, or an athlete.</p>
<p>What I meant from my comments was that a kid without a hook who needed a lot of aid but wasn't a top scorer would have a very hard time getting the interest of the stratosphere schools. I come from ND and have seen lots of kids apply to schools since I went. There is a very generous woman in town who helps smart kids from the area. Even from farms in ND, kids without a hook aren't getting in to those schools. Then can find a high scorer who is exceptional in something for the one kid from ND they need.</p>
<p>NYC, while some schools readily identify themselves as schools that accept kids who have "special needs" what I'm talking about is the fact that many mainstream schools do not. I would just be much more careful in choosing among schools that don't have as much of a reputation to uphold.</p>
<p>I think one should be careful regardless. There are problem kids everywhere, schools w/ a reputation to uphold are particularly adept at damage-control, but keeping the problems on thd DL should not be confused w/ the absence of problems or the absence of problem students. </p>
<p>There may be, as you insist, are more problem students on second tier campuses, but only marginally so, not in the alarming numbers that you suggest.</p>
<p>The issue is that you can't hide where you've been to school in the past. Some schools need the money and will consider kids who have messed up in the past and others do not. Some schools need to take chances others don't.</p>
<p>an interesting side note to the comments that admission into top tier schools without being a legacy, recruited athlete or URM -- check out the postings on this thread: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=366378&page=3%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=366378&page=3</a></p>