<p>Sure, there is usually a grain of truth in a generalization. However, collegekid remarks are so cliched--his reference to his boarding school peers seem to come straight from a Dominic Dunne novel.</p>
<p>Checkwriter, your daughter had something that made her stand apart, you not not fully realize what her hook was. To get those offers at all those schools means she's exceptional in a way clear to all. That's what I heard about A and E's aid. SPS too. My cousin is really hoping for one.</p>
<p>Jenny/Linda/whoever, I know better than to argue with a mother bear protecting the decision for her cub. I'm sure you chose wisely for your kids, and clearly you can look past the social climbing/status building aspect of BSs. But it's been well documented that many can not and actually pursue top schools for that very aspect. Go to a few dinner parties on 5th or Park avenues to fully unserstand. </p>
<p>Other than gathering info for my cousin, my point here is to get across what I've learned. Believe my info or not, but if I help 1 person I'm happy.</p>
<p>When I got to college and fell in with lots of BS kids, which happens because we all stick out as "old" as freshmen, I finally had the full picture. So that's where the non partying, hard working, smart wealthy kids were! My people were at the top schools. None of the sniveling "my dad already talked to the head and I'll be the prefect" kids made it into my college. </p>
<p>It was then that I realized the enormity of the stratification.</p>
<p>"Kids with no BS history in their family and from less sophisticated environments are suspect to them."</p>
<p>How in the world do you know that? Honestly, I realize that you are still only in college, but, having gone to bs, you perhaps should know that making blanket statements without facts to back them up is NOT a good writing practice and certainly not persuasive. You can't possibly know that this is how bs's in general feel about applicants!</p>
<p>I agree with others on this thread that you have a very negatively skewed view of bs and that as you get older (and hopefully wiser), you will realize that your experiences in life are not always true for everyone else. It really is no one else's business what financial aid package a family receives, is it? But, you made your family's FA a "front and center" subject very early on here....so - from my memory, your family had significant real estate assets/equity. Quite simply, that is a very big factor in a FA decision. If parents CAN borrow against assets, they are expected to do so. Based upon what you've said, it doesn't sound at all surprising that your parents/ FA was not what others have received. That's just life.</p>
<p>You remember incorrectly, my parents have a money losing farm in North Dakota. Colleges worked with us, but none of the BSs I was accepted to did.</p>
<p>The details of an individuals aid may be private, but info on aid is something many kids and parents are on here asking for and little is forthcoming. That means they will learn the hard way as I did, forgive me for wanting better for others.</p>
<p>The person who told me that many kids from non in the loop backgrounds end up not going to BS at all was an adcom at Groton. He told me they lost their best West Coast candidates to Thatcher and that many like me would go home and decide to stay there, among other admissions chatter. Andover told me that their yield numbers reflected a lot of kids who didn't choose any boarding school.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, some of my info is anecdotal, but I think it's worth sharing.</p>
<p>My sincere apologies to anyone with kids at a school they fell I'm insulting. That's not my purpose nor is it the purpose of those who have written numerous books and articles about the power of top schools and the people who crave it.</p>
<p>From what I have read, people report good aid at 3 schools and for athletes. Most kids can't get into those three and most are not great athletes. I really don't understand why parents like steph who has a kid who got into both A and E and went to neither would have a hard time just revealing what check did which was very helpful and his kid IS attending.</p>
<p>My girlfriend says to tell you that she's rich, and that she and her rich friends also make fun of their parents' values.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You remember incorrectly, my parents have a money losing farm in North Dakota. Colleges worked with us, but none of the BSs I was accepted to did.
[/quote]
If it makes you feel any better, I have a few other friends who were small business owners (restaurant, contractor) whose kids FA offers were much less generous as others with similar AGIs at the same school. I think boarding schools do a poor job of recognizing that much of the value of a small business is in the proprietor's skill, not the physical assets. And many businesses (like a contractor or a farmer) are cyclical and when the cycle is down, cash flow is poor and credit is hard to get, compounding the problem.</p>
<p>In Boarding school's defense, they don't have the FA staffing to do as good of a job analyzing a businesses true worth as compared with larger universities who deal with these people on a much larger scale.</p>
<p>And if I had my guess, I'd say your parents' retirement funds are locked up in the farm value. Us wage slaves on the other hand, set aside 401k or IRAs to supplement the piddly pensions we may or may not collect (depending if our employer goes Chapter 11). Those retirement accounts are not part of the calculation for FA, whereas the value of your parents' farm is.</p>
<p>Perhaps this may explain your puzzlement with the lack of FA offered from boarding schools.</p>
<p>My girlfriend's comments after reading the whole thread: "Fangs are out, these people are telling you you're not entitled to your opinions because they differ from their own and imply their kid might not be in a place they know everything about." I think she's right.</p>
<p>She also noted the new poster who only has posted on this one subject. Really people, open your minds. Why would I make this up? </p>
<p>You people think the schools will do things to discourage you from applying like telling the truth!! They have a simple mission-get everyone and their uncle to apply to become more selective, to use their aid dollars for exact purposes and to make the family pay as much as they can be squeezed to. There are way more BS kids in my life than on this board.</p>
<p>Goaliedad, if you had a webcam, you'd be looking at my parent's retirement. The farm has little real value. They are uneducated and stuck. I'll add they a lot of my non athlete friends had the same situation even if their parents had conventional jobs. 2 leaving after soph year.</p>
<p>Collegkid - you stated in a previous post that your family had significang equity in their home. I have not the energy or desire to serach for it. </p>
<p>We are in no way saying you are not entitled to your opinions because they differ from ours or because I might be sending my kid to a place you think you know more about than I do. I don't feel that you are insulting me, the school I'm considering sending my kid to, or the one I'm currently sending my kids to. </p>
<p>We (well, I, and I think some others) are saying your views are biased to your own experiences. And based on our experiences we don't agree. That's all. Every reply of yours turns around to being about financial aid only being available to URM, hooks, or athletes. Or, about how they "trick" you into spending too much money on school. Or how you can only get in to a top school if you are an URM, hook, legacy or recruited athlete. This thread was started about college matriculation stats. Not about financial aid. I understand that topics change in a thread, but for you it always does. That's all.</p>
<p>Of course my opinions are biased by experience as are everyones. </p>
<p>I read lots of blogs but this one is unto itself. Not a wide range of opinions openly expressed (of course there are about 7 posters!) and lots of closed minds.</p>
<p>Of course, I did not remember incorrectly. Collegekid certainly did report on this thread that his parents had significant equity in their property. That is not at all the same thing as having 'income' from that property, and it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they are ABLE to borrow money from their equity....it is just a factor that bs financial aid committees WILL and DO look at. </p>
<p>If nothing else comes of the disagreements and bad attitudes expressed here, parents are well reminded that their equity is a factor (Not the deciding one, perhaps) when schools are doling out FA. Collegekid reminds us all of that fact. </p>
<p>But, although he is entitled to his opinion naturally, others are entitled to theirs as well. And, he's not entitled to his own facts. This thread cannot give definitive answers to ANY prospective bs family regarding their FA. Each family is completely unique, and the FA they receive reflects that uniqueness. Certain facts are common to all though - not everyone will receive what they think is fair; equity in property/assets DOES matter; and like Goaliedad said, schools may not always take all factors into account equally. But, the schools have done this a LONG time, and I believe they do try for the most part to distribute FA equitably and in accordance with the schools' own goals. All a family can do is give it a shot and see. BS is worth it for many students. Good luck!</p>
<p>Really JE, the schools in general have not done this for a long time. FA at prep schools is far behind that at colleges and that's just fact. Colleges had no trouble understanding that my parents indeed had worthless land. </p>
<p>The BSs also do not have nearly the same degree of diversity issues as colleges do. A white kid from ND with a $50K income is not diversity at most outside of Andover's ilk that can afford to look at aid and diversity the way colleges do. For the typical American boarding school, diversity is some blacks and latinos, that's what they need first and all they can afford.</p>
<p>Everyone should apply, you honestly never know. But apply with your eyes wide open and a really strategic list. Also have a great local backup so that you don't make a hasty and expensive decision at the 11th hour because the backup plan wasn't well considered. Let's face it, this board has a lot of kids who did not do this.</p>
<p>Regarding finaid:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Yes, we paid sticker price for 4 years and then D3 transferred to another school; she is now considering BS for her last 2 years of hs (though D1 strongly advises against it b/c most of the friendship networks are already well-established). </p></li>
<li><p>And no, the sch didn't pull a bait and switch. I knew from the outset that this sch had a very small endow and that the parent body was far less affluent (though by no means poor) D1's sch. As a result, I expected little or no aid - - unlike D1's which has a huge endow (larger than many colleges and BSs) and very welthy parent body, where we rec'd a fabulously generous aid package k-8.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>jennycraig - </p>
<p>I did not say that I knew where all afluent parents send their kids to school. Nor did I suggest that, affluent parents will consider only top schools. </p>
<p>And I certainly didn't say that if one could not attend a top sch BS one would be better off at a local public sch. It is not the choice I made for D1 (who moved from top day sch to second tier BS). In fact, I stated in an earlier post (another thread?) that although I think a more compet and larger BS might have been better, D1 certainly preferred being a big fish in her smaller tier 2 BS pool. (And being a "star" didn't hurt her w/ college admission).</p>
<p>I merely observed that overall, the parent body at the top schools is more affluent. While there were certainly affluent to wealthy families at D1's BS, it was rare to find any of the uber-rich, who are not at all uncommon at the to to BSs. </p>
<p>Yes, the uber-rich who troll the halls of D1's day sch and it's peer institutions tend to choose top BSs. Still, some of these families will chose, as I did w/ D1, a smaller and admittedly less compet/rigorous shc. </p>
<p>My point was simply that a solidly middle class family is more likely to get aid and more likely to receive a larger award from a school: (1) wilth a larger endow and (2) a more affluent parent body - - b/c w/i that pool the middle class family is comparatively "needy."</p>
<p>Gf is way smarter than I am. She really got into this and searched poster's past posts, concluding that what some posters wrote me in PMs were lies. People claiming their kid got into schools with great aid who've been posting since 2004 about where their kid was applying and didn't mention the wonderful schools where their kid got accepted! And their kid just happened to choose a far inferior program over the great schools with great aid! Liars, you know who you are. There's no more I can learn here.</p>
<p>WOW. I haven't been following this thread.. but i just skimmed through it.. and jesus christ..</p>
<p>allmusic:
- yes, there are crappy private schools. yes, some public schools are better than a few private schools. is this anywhere near the norm or the majority of cases? no. helll no.</p>
<p>-my public elementary school was not diverse at all.. i don't know why you think all public schools are in the inner city and full of diversity. i have lived in all very wealthy neighborhoods (top 100 wealthiest zip codes in america), and when i attended elementary school, i was placed in an amazing public school which is better than many privates. something like 60% of the elementary teachers has masters degrees..all had post bachelor's.. the teachers made $80,000 a year minimum (still couldn't afford to live in the town though)..we learned languages in 1st grade.. we could all draw decent to amazing charcoal sketches before 5th grade.. we had interscholastic sports teams from 1st grade and up.. 100% of all kids passed the english standards test.. 97% passed the math standards.. we did prealgebra in 5th grade.. we had a professional acting coach from NYC come down every week to give us acting lessons.. everyone went out to lunch at lunchtime instead of packing a sandwich...etc. etc. There aren't too many private schools like that. But this was a very, very nice community in which the police department's sole duty was to keep the "riff raff" out (they just patrolled the borders basically)... but you can't get a 3 bed/2 bath home there for under $1 million. Among the 6,000 or so residents, there was one black family.. no hispanics, and no asians.. just one black family of 5.. and they moved out within a few years of moving there. everyone else was white. this isn't too diverse.. that's %.0833 percent people of color.. 99.917% white. was this a cultured experience? no. i'm still trying to shake off the views i acquired from living there.. i still find it bizarre when i hear of people never having traveled because it was so common among my friends.. or that people find BMW's luxury cars, when they were so common around town i never guessed that they were something exclusive or coveted.. i'm always baffled to hear that some people haven't been on an airplane or whatever. i also grew up thinking that everyone went to college except for a few really dumb people... when only something like 20% of americans go to college. also, because i attained a stellar education, i am horrified by what some public schools offer.. i'm just deeply disgusted and appalled by the ignorance of some people who have not attained much of an education. this is all really deep-rooted in my mind because of the town i grew up in (even when we moved, the town wasn't too different).. and i'm still trying to shake a lot of it off... in many ways, this has hurt me. i may have been better off in a normal middle class town full of people who grew up differently.</p>
<p>thus, a public education is not necessarily "diverse".</p>
<p>^^ this type of public school is very rare. this quality of an education is rare in private schools, even.</p>
<p>most public schools aren't like that.. in fact, i would have a very hard time finding another one that came close.</p>
<p>collegekid:</p>
<p>people who can afford exeter and andover happily send their kids elsewhere. my grandfather, father and my uncles all went to prep schools that are rather unknown.. they could afford to go to any school they wanted, but they wanted to stay close to home. where did they go? one school was colorado fountain valley.. my uncle went there after my grandfather suggested it. they were living in texas at the time due to my gfather's business and going all the way to mass. wasn't appealing. he received a great education... he didn't WANT to go to any other school. same goes for my cousins.. they can afford the other schools, but because their family is so into sailing, tabor was the only school they were interested in... my cousin didn't even order brochures from andover or exeter.. she's not interested. she would rather surf and sail. are they new money? you bet not! they're so down to earth and un-ostentatious that if you saw them walking down the street without knowing their name or where they lived, you wouldn't have a clue. they're totally uninterested in money or showing it off. same goes with my grandfather! that guy won't even buy a decent watch or buy a new house. nobody in my family even talks about money... let alone shows it off. which is why they weren't insecure about sending their kids to a school other than AESD. they didn't need to gain more social acceptance.. they just wanted their kids to find a school that they really liked. that's money well spent to them. they could give a crap about "the big ten". my parents let me decide where i wanted to go..i could go to an unconventional art school or an old prep school.. it didn't matter, as long as i found a school i really liked. when i was accepted to tabor and exeter, it took me a long time to decide. i kept swaying between the two because they both offered different opportunities.. i ended up going to exeter because of the course selection and the amazing girls' xcountry and crew teams, but i will still miss sailing and the people at tabor. not everyone is a prestige whore.</p>
<p>Heh? No, before I learned of my acceptances, and we were all discussing aid and its effect on admissions, I considered how the turnout would be if I didn't ask for aid since my grandfather can afford it. Then I said I could never ask him for that. That's all. I was just preparing for the worst. And my family isn't "big money".</p>
<p>PS.. I did not apply for aid at Tabor, and thus didn't get any.</p>
<p>collegekid, it occurrs to me that if a different individual experienced the same situation you have presented to us on this forum, this person might come away with a completely different perspective than yours.</p>
<p>To paraphrase your words, this is your story:</p>
<p>He gets accepted into a "low rated 2nd tier school, full of wealthy 2nd chance kids who should be in some type of wilderness program, clueless international students who think all American schools are good, and some smart but troubled kids that neither the top schools nor their parents want, has his parents borrow a lot of money to pay for the school, because the idiotic financial aid committee couldn't see that his family's land was worthless, so they don't get a large financial aid offer, gets trapped with a loser for a roommate who does drugs, but because he comes from money, can go on to a better school down the road, plays a sport (baseball?) while at boarding school, becomes relatively good at this sport, and because of this talent, GETS ACCEPTED TO AN IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL THAT OFFERS FINANCIAL AID. </p>
<p>Do I have your story right?</p>
<p>If so, I think someone else who lived through the same experience, might say "Thank God, I went to that boarding school! Granted, it wasn't the same as going to an Andover or Exeter, but because of that school, I ended up being able to perfect my sport and now, look at me, I am at my dream Ivy league school! Thank you God for giving me this opportunity."</p>
<p>Of course, this is only my opinion.</p>
<p>I think there are people who just can't imagine what a loan does to truly poor people. In the end, as I've said, I am glad to have gone to the school I went to in many ways. The truth, however, is that I was a top student there, had one of the highest SAT scores coming out of the school, brought out a lot of sports fans and was one of the few no legacy or bought ivy admits. The school got it's part of the bargain. If I had a CC and advice back then, I would have had the info I needed to make a better choice. My cousin, who has the benefit of my experience which made her go out and find a pro bono consultant will do much better. The end.</p>
<p>collegekid,</p>
<p>It sounds like you've made the most of what you've described as an overpriced 2nd-tier boarding school situation. I'm sure that seeing their son go to an Ivy League school, your parents feel they have given you every advantage in the world and are quite proud of your achievement. I'd bet they probably think it was worth the money if they know the value of what you are getting.</p>
<p>Just make sure to make the most of your educational opportunities and if you get a few bucks ahead after you join the working world, try to find a way to help your parents out.</p>
<p>I don't have any illusions that my daughter will get an Ivy League education, as she is more hard-working, athletic, and socially smart than intellectual, I know that her boarding school experience (while it is not AESDCH) will do more for her preparing her for college than her alternatives here at home very much like your boarding school experience (also not AESDCH) did a better job of getting you where you are than your local options in North Dakota.</p>
<p>I'm spending more money on her education than I do on my mortgage, even with a generous FA offer. While I don't make $50K per year (as you indicated that your parents make), my AGI isn't that much more. But, I'm happy to spend that money as long as she works hard, does well, and is enjoying her experience. So far, so good.</p>
<p>Getting back to the original thought of this thread, it seems that stef (the OP) is not that much different from your parents. She has a low income and an unhooked (not an athlete, URM, legacy, etc) kid whom she is looking for a school with a reasonable chance at an Ivy and decent FA (besides being a good fit for her son). </p>
<p>From her posting history, she has been concerned from the beginning about FA issues and is aware that she has to work harder and consider a broader array of options (i.e. 2nd-tier schools). I think she is aware of many of the trade-offs she is making and has talked with a lot of people about a lot of different schools prior to starting this thread. </p>
<p>If I remember posts from other thread correctly, she actually has quite an impressive record of getting her kids some unique opportunities despite financial challenges over the years. And it sounds to me like if she keeps plugging away at this effort, she may well yet find one school that will fill the bill - and that's all it takes. </p>
<p>It may not be what you consider to be a prime opportunity, but remember you took a not so good opportunity and have gone far. </p>
<p>She may not have the money right now that it takes to pull off the deal, but she seems undaunted by the challenge, and is probably prepared to make a significant sacrifice to get her younger son a better opportunity than her inner-city public situation.</p>
<p>While you may think her effort will be futile financially, and we won't know for 9 months the results, but no matter what happens, she will know that she did her best to give her son a chance, leaving no stone unturned. </p>
<p>We parents are quite a different breed. We do things that would seem quixotic to many, but what a better way to love your kid.</p>
<p>Getting off my soap box...</p>
<p>Great post goaliedad!</p>
<p>Interesting how you requested your own post to which I responded to be removed, and had a part of mine edited which shone a bright light on your personality.</p>
<p>"I think there are people who just can't imagine what a loan does to truly poor people. "</p>
<p>stop complaining! you attended a prep school, were educated, all of your needs were met, you had health care, became a great athlete and went to an ivy league school. do you have any idea how may kids would cut of a toe or two for an opportunity like that? <em>if</em> only the school wanted you a bit more and your parents didn't have to pay a dime for something so priceless. stop taking your resentment out by deeming all AESD kids rich snobs.. your bitterness/jealousy towards those who can afford prep school or received aid shines through your incorrect assumptions.</p>
<p>PS
making $62,000 a year puts a FAMILY in the top 15% of the nation and according to social scientists, places them in the "upper middle class". now, $62,000 a year in california won't buy you a year's rent, but in North Dakota.. you should be thankful at how relatively prosperous your family is. Stop assuming everyone has it better than you..you're acting like a child. why don't you put that $40,000 education to use and stop to think about it.</p>