<p>My DD is a junior in HS now and the #1 conversion topic in our household has been "College". </p>
<p>While both our children were born in US, I and my wife had our education from outside the country. This will be our first experience in applying for college. We have done an extensive web search of the topics. However, the more we learn, the more questions we have. Our major concerns: how to pay for her college and what college to select.</p>
<p>We are of a low income family. I bring home a salary, DD does tutoring and babysitting, and DS cut lawn in summer for neighbors. We probably could not pay much even if we only ate two meals a day. We feel really bad because my DD is really a decent student.</p>
<p>Standard tests: SAT I : 1370 (taken in 8th grade); ACT : 32 (taken in 10th grade); PSAT 222 (Ohio). Plan to take SAT I in March and SAT II is June, ACT in senior year.
AP: 5 in Bio; taking 4 now and plan to take 4 ~ 5 in senior year.
GPA: 4.0 UW. Don't know the ranking. Transferred into Indian Hill - a Nationally ranked HS this year.
Several State level science and math awards. Placed 2nd overall in the country in the National Spanish Exam in level 2R. </p>
<p>Played varsity tennis in JH and doing cross country now, among other sports. Attended Governor School of Art (80 kids statewide) playing piano. </p>
<p>Tons of volunteering works and several clubs in and outside of school. Overall, my DD is just such a nice person who will gladly give you her last $ if you need it more than she does. </p>
<p>She wants to do research in the medical field instead of a clinical MD. She likes Princeton, MIT (solicited) and Columbia (solicited). We are also looking at John Hopkins and Univ. of Washington at SL (solicited). </p>
<p>We heard that it is very difficult to get into Pre-med with a "full ride". We heard that you don't really need to do a under pre-med to go to med school to do graduate work. We also heard that one will take a very long time to get a research Medical degree. </p>
<p>Please provide us with advice based on your experiences. Many thanks in advance.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds like she'll be a good candidate for any school and, if you're truly low income, there should be plenty of need-based (and merit-based) aid offered to her. Ask your GC about fee waivers to save money on applications. My son had similar SAT in 8th grade and it went up to 1550 by junior year. His 10th grade ACT composite of 29 rose to 34 by junior year and his 220 PSAT made him a National Merit semifinalist in VT (don't know about OH).</p>
<p>I know nothing about Princeton, but I know Harvard is looking for high-performing low income students like your daughter and they give excellent need-based aid. Wash-U SL sounds like another excellent option. If she's considering any LACs, Oberlin has an excellent science program. Grinnell, Carleton and Reed would be other good places to look into. They all have very high percentages of students going on to graduate studies.</p>
<p>And it's true that you don't need to major in science undergrad to go on to med school. I've heard that a lot of programs look favorably upon students who have non-science interests.</p>
<p>I realize that visiting faraway school may be too expensive, but I would recommend that you do visit some if you can. I've found the Fiske and Insider's guides to be very informative and accurate about the different campuses and social environments. Your GC or local library will probably have these. Some schools' websites have links to communicate with current students by e-mail. The best book I've read on admissions is "Winning the Heart of the College Admissions Dean". I found it in our tiny public library, so yours might have it too, or could get it by inter-library loan.</p>
<p>Good luck and keep us posted. I'm excited for your daughter. I think she has an good shot at just about anything.</p>
<p>laser,
It is true that your daughter can major in whatever she wants and still go to medical school. Most schools do not have a "pre med" major. As long as she takes the courses required for medical school (usually a year of english, year of biology, a year of inorganic chemistry, year of organic chemistry, year of physics, specific schools may want others) she could major in music, history, or whatever.</p>
<p>Most schools do not have "free rides" no matter what your major. There are threads on college confidential that talk about schools that have good merit scholarships. However, it sounds like you may qualify for need based aid. Harvard, for example, does not require families to pay anything if your income is under a certain amount. It sounds like your daughter will be competitive at many schools, but make sure she has a safety school when you complete her list of schools.</p>
<p>The top schools have the most money to support their students and many are trying especially hard to locate high performing students from modest income backgrounds. Your daughter is ideally positioned due to her abilities and accomplishments - and of course the support of her family!
Princeton, for one, is proud that the percentage of students there receiving financial aid has risen from the high 30s to the low to mid 50s. They also have a no loan policy- regardless of family income there are no loans in its financial aid packages. This would be a plus if your daughter hopes to proceed to medical school.</p>
<p>Yes, sorry, I forgot to mention safety. Even the best candidate needs a couple of "sure bets". I made sure my son had 2 we hoped would be safe and it's a big relief now that he's been accepted at both of them Early Action.</p>
<p>It sounds like my DD could do Bio Eng in schools like MIT or Columbia first and then medical school at Harvard, if she could get in, of course. Do you send in the FA application at the same time with the admission application? What is this "common application"? </p>
<p>Yes, we are planning a road trip in our Town and Country this Spring break to visit UPenn (DS likes Wharton), Princeton (reach), Columbia (match), Yale (Reach) and Case Western (safe). We may visit Uni. of Chicago (match) and U of W at SL (match) this summer. Should we wait until the applications are in so we could get an interview during the visit? </p>
<p>BTW, DD does not like OSU because "it is too big". So Case Western in Cleveland becomes our safe in state school. May be we should add a couple more safeties such as Emory (we were from Atlanta).</p>
<p>Columbia is a match for no one; scores may match, but its admission rate is too low to be anything but a reach.</p>
<p>I'm confused. You say your daughter likes Wharton--a business school--but also mention MIT bio engineering. There's a huge difference in those areas of interest. </p>
<p>Visit colleges early. Do interviews with those that do interviews with prospective applicants (many schools do not). You can do alumni interviews if needed at those schools that offer them. You need to work with your daughter to figure out what kind of colleges she likes. If your daughter is interested in MIT, she should go visit it while you're on the east coast. (My son is a student there, and I am all too aware how different the student experience there is from some other schools.)</p>
<p>Incidentally, you mentioned that your daughter received solicitations from some schools. Those are blanket mailings to everyone with certain kinds of PSAT scores. Do not assume they mean your daughter can or will get into the school. MIT, for example, receives more than 10,000 applicants for its 1700 or so acceptances, and most of those applicants are "matches."</p>
<p>I suggest starting by building a list of match and safety schools that she'd love to attend that are in your home state of Ohio. They also should be close enough that you can visit, which will help her figure out what she wants in her college experience: large college; small college; religious based college, etc.</p>
<p>Realize that her getting mail from places like MIT, Hopkins doesn't mean that she is guaranteed admission there. Based on her scores, she'll get mail from lots of colleges because those colleges are sending mail to the tens of thousands of students with SAT scores in certain ranges: These are far more students than those colleges have space to admit.</p>
<p>Because in-state public colleges base admissions mainly on grades, scores and coursework, those usually are the easiest to predict admissions for. They also tend to have generous merit aid (that often is very clearly based on scores and grades) for in-state students with high stats. They also may have honors colleges and learning communities that can give stellar students experiences similar to what the students can get at top liberal arts colleges.</p>
<p>So, take a look at places like Ohio State as well as places like Oberlin and Case Western Reserve, which would give your D a good view about the kind of varying possibilities she could have in her college experiences.</p>
<p>It is true that "premed" can be any degree so long that, as one poster inidcated here, that the student completed certain course requirements. However, it is not too late to plan ahead. Medical schools rarely give out financial aid. The exception is MD/PhD programs where students usually get full rides. To qualify, the student obviously will have to have a strong background in science. The MD/PhD program seems to fit your D's interest as well. Best of luck to your very accomplished D.</p>
<p>If the Princeton estimator says your EFC is $25000, are you really low income (from a college's point of view)? I know a lot of people who feel they're just scraping by and are totally shocked when they find out what college's expect them to contribute.</p>
<p>We did push her for OSU - decent academic reputation, close to home, may take some of her AP credits etc. We even moved from WV to OH to get "in state" status. But, she just said "it is too big". </p>
<p>I will do a research on Oberlin and other LAC. Thanks.</p>
<p>If Indian Hill is a top notch high school, it should have a decent guidance office and may be an excellent resource for good advice and info. Also, with your daughter's hs record there should be little to worry about with respect to finances. The colleges you listed all have a policy of 100% need based aid and although the calclulated efc may seem high, it is something most families can handle. If not, request a reconsideration when that time comes.</p>
<p>In short, do not be concerned about your daughter's colleges finances. She has a terrific hs record and can expect full financial aid support wherever she attends. And to reitterate a suggestion from a previous poster, include a few admission/finaid safeties in her college choices. Curmudgeon's daughter has a full ride from Rhodes College in nearby Tenn which might be considered for her prelim list. Check out it Bellingham Fellows program.</p>
<p>Smith provides paid research assistants to about 50 students for the first two years. Many are in their Center for Molecular Sciences, a national center for genomic research. Many students have published papers by the time they are juniors.</p>
<p>27% of Smith students are on Pell Grants (family incomes below $40k).</p>
<p>MIT invites many qualified applicants to attend seminars in their home towns. Unless this is something else entirely, it does not mean she is being "recruited".</p>
<p>I also strongly agree with others who say it's critical to have several safeties where your D would be <em>happy</em>. Almost every one of the schools you mentioned (Princeton, MIT, Columbia, WUStL, Yale, Chicago, Penn) are, as others have mentioned, reaches or "lottery plays" for every single applicant. There is no one who should assume they are a match for these schools. It will be critical to find safer schools that your D loves. Do not let her get her heart set on only the list above. While it's great that she wants to reach for them, and the only way she <em>could</em> be accepted would be if she would apply, they are never a sure thing for anyone, regardless of how accomplished. Remember, it's not just test scores and grades these schools are looking for, most of them are evaluating holistically. And also remember, there are many accomplished students who play the piano well, and who are dedicated volunteers, and who are kind and wonderful young people. There are not enough spaces at these schools for all the terrific kids who would like to attend. Please help your D to craft her list <em>FROM THE BOTTOM UP</em>, so she is sure she has likely schools to choose from, if her "dream" schools don't come through. The financial issue is also critical: every year, fine students are admitted to excellent schools which they must eventually decline for financial reasons. Visit the financial aid forums here to learn more about this topic.</p>
<p>Best of luck through this process! We'll all be watching to see how things go, and don't hesitate to ask questions here, people are quite helpful.</p>
<p>Yes, many medical researchers do MD/PhD programs, and those can take a long time. Medical school alone is 4 years plus 3-4 years residency, and add at least 4 years (and maybe 5 or 6) to that for the PhD program and specialized fellowship. Not everyone gets an MD, though.</p>
<p>I think you will find, with a student like your daughter, that the whole reach-match-safety idea doesn't quite work. All of her "matches" will be "reaches" -- that certainly includes Columbia (which accepts less than 10% of its applicants), and probably includes Chicago (accepts a high percentage of applicants, but rejects many high-scoring applicants) and Washington University - St. Louis. You are probably right that Case Western is a safety, though. </p>
<p>Your current list (Princeton, Yale, MIT, Columbia, Chicago, WUSL, Hopkins, Case) seems appropriate to me, provided she continues to perform the way she has. She probably won't get into all of those schools, but she will probably get into more than one or two. You should probably think about Penn, too -- lots of medicine-related research going on there and in the area, and many of my son's classmates whose stats and ambitions are similar to your daughter's don't even bother to look much at any other schools. In the somewhat less selective (but still very selective) department, maybe you should look at Cornell and Rice. Women's colleges, like Wellesley and Smith, have a great track record of producing female researchers.</p>
<p>If the Princeton estimator says that you will be expected to pay $25,000/year, you are not anywhere near "low income" as that term is commonly used. If you really want to look intelligently for high merit scholarships, you should read the many "curmudgeon" threads here on that topic, and start adjusting your ideas of how fancy the brand name on your child's institution should be.</p>