Where do you draw the line between being an involved parent and taking over?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I've posted numerous times on this site, but something has been greatlly troubling me for a few days. I'm a junior, at a public high school in central Ohio. I have a 3.86w/3.8uw gpa. I did future problem solvers last year, and I played lacrosse for 2 years (I'm quitting due to the social hierarchy of high school...basically I'm not welcome by the other players because I'm not popular enough). I am an active member of my church, I sing in the choir, I have been a missionary for an annual church convention (once, to Phoenix, Arizona) and I am the secretary of the Sunday School. I worked for three months, but was recently fired/laid off (not sure*) due to the loss of business, canidate for rehire in month or two. I take the toughest courseload at my school possible, though it would be considered light here (ap bio, ap euro, honors writing, spanish 4, pre-calc, chemistry). I am planning on taking 5 or 6 AP's senior year. I have won 2 awards, recipent of one twice. One is the Ohio state minority scholar program, where each central ohio high school chooses 5 minority students, the best from each class. The second is the ohio state university MLK Junior Scholar Award, goes to the top 2 black juniors in each central ohio high school. I've never done anything exciting, because I have no talents, or skills. </p>

<p>My problem is because of finances, I know going out-of-state is unlikely, yet my dad insists I go. I know for a fact we will get little to nothing in terms of financial aid. I have 2 more siblings to get through college, and 1 is already there. So I told my dad I was considering Ohio State, and he told me I wasn't allowed to go. He says it's too close (about 10-15 minutes away) and I won't socialize well. He says I can't go to a large school because I'm too antisocial, I need a small school where I can meet people easily. I hate the thought of being around the same people, and I like the anoymity that a large school offers. He doesn't get it. Ohio State offers me a lot too. It will have a new biomedical major, and they only accept 25 applicants. Secondly, it's in a large city, because I can't do rural. Thirdly, it's one of the best publics in my mind, regardless of rankings. Also, my possible majors range from slightly less common to rare (meteorology, pre-pharm, broadcast journalism), so I like a school that gives me options. He says I only want to be a pharmacist because 2 of my friends do, while there the reason I thought about it, I am truly interested in this career and have researched it. My parents also don't want me majoring in science, they want me to be a journalist, but I'm not sure if that's my passion. Science has always been my passion. He thinks because I have decent credentials, and I'm black (he's pushing this affirmative action thing) I should apply anywhere my heart desires, but I don't desire prestige, only academic strength. </p>

<p>Any advice ?(sorry for the length, I really just think the background info is very useful)</p>

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<p>Celebrian--you are such a considerate kid! I understand that you're trying to ensure that your sibs will have as good a shot at attending a good college as you are getting. Your dad, on the other hand, has his own aspirations and hopes for your future success and happiness. When the two collide in opposition, sparks are sure to fly.</p>

<p>Have you and your parents met with your GC yet? In my kids' HS, the GC doesn't have a formal college meeting until the beginning of senior year, but students can request a special one during junior year. Perhaps your GC could act as a mediator/facilitator in this discussion. Sometimes (s)he can ask parents difficult questions and make observations more objectively than kids can. I would recommend that you speak privately with your GC beforehand, so that (s)he is well acquainted with your viewpoint and feelings about college (selection, admissions, major, etc.).</p>

<p>As for science vs. journalism, if you have strong writing skills, you might want to consider taking writing courses. Good science writers who truly understand what they're describing are in high demand, and you could do that in addition to practicing pharmacy.</p>

<p>It sounds as if you've done a great deal of soul-searching and you'll do well. Good luck!</p>

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<p>My mother went to Ohio State; her father wanted her to major in science and she ended up in journalism... And she grew up in Columbus and her father taught at OSU... She hungered to escape Ohio and left for New York the day after graduation. That was a long time ago, though. I amused by the parallels and contrasts in your two stories.</p>

<p>Your qualifications could enable you to get into many colleges. Your father undoubtedly knows you well---but he could be wrong, since many people change as they go through their teens. I think you're smart to look at colleges that give you multiple options. </p>

<p>Does OSU have an honors program that acts as a smaller "college within a college"? Could such a program be a compromise between you and your father? Have you looked at smaller out-of-state colleges? Or even the smaller Ohio liberal arts colleges, like Kenyon and Oberlin? Even a very small college has 2000 students or so, and you wouldn't always be around the same people all the time!</p>

<p>Personally, I think pharmacy is a fascinating career, especially combined with some of the newer programs in alternative medicine (we have such a program here in Seattle), but I also think it's early to narrow your major that far.</p>

<p>Why don't your parents want you to major in science? Have they seen the studies that show that science and math majors make more money than humanities majors? </p>

<p>Incidentally, you could combine your interest in science with your interest in journalism and plan to be a science and technology writer--buy the Tuesday New York Times to get an idea of what I mean.</p>

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<p>At my school, you never really officially meet with the GC, only when you find it necesary. Secondly, it's not that I am not considering a few out-of-states, but rather that I recognize even if I'm accepted, financially there's a low possibility of me attending anywhere. So while a lot of reaches I'm considering are out-of-state, my realistic schools all lie within state (as well as one reach, case western). I'm a realist, not an idealist. It's hard not to hear my parents talk about finances (they're seperated, possibly divorcing sometime, though I doubt soon). I would love to leave Ohio, but false hopes can be painful. </p>

<p>I did forget one key note, my dad doesn't want me to go to Ohio State because it's a big party school. I would have to live at home, because he said he won't allow me to live in a dorm. He also says the only reason why I'm interested in OSU is because a lot of my friends are considering it as well, which is off-base. It's just that the closer I get to senior year, the more I realize I live in a terriffic place, one I will be sad to leave (but of course, happy as well). I do love this city, I have spent all my years growing up here. He thinks I want to go there on a whim, when really I have done my research. I'm not an impulsive person- I've made very few impulsive decisions in my years.</p>

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<p>I think part of the problem lies with I told them I wanted to be a journalist 2 years ago- I've changed my mind since then. While I haven't completely shut out any prospect of it, it's not something I'm sure I could do for the rest of my life. And I am trying to keep my options open, so those are just prospective majors/careers, things that interest me right now. See, when I told my parents of my interest in journalism, I didn't know they would almost chain me down to that profession. I was just saying I found it interesting, they thought I wanted to major in it, so I try to tell them that is not the case, but...well I did get my stubborness from my parents. I don't like to be chained down, and I can't be stuck in a major, when I haven't even experienced it yet. I just want options and I have in no way committed to any career.</p>

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<p>Celebrian - you might just want to go ahead and apply to Ohio State and also some out of state colleges, and keep a low profile around your Dad. I assume that you feel your family finances are too high to qualify for much need-based aid -- but you might want to look at out-of-state schools that offer good merit aid. Your Dad is right about one thing -- your race will be a factor in your favor in terms of getting merit aid -- colleges do use scholarship money to try to entice well-qualified minority applicants, so you might be amazed at some of the offers you receive. You just want to aim a notch below the Ivies, targeting schools that do offer good aid.</p>

<p>Then - wait to see where you get in. Your father's reality check will come when he sees the tuition bill - and if your parents are arguing about finances now, your realism will overtake their unrealistic expectations when the time comes. </p>

<p>I think that your realism will serve you well if you have the attitude of keeping your options open. DO apply to the colleges that you don't think you have a chance of attending-- my son ended up at one, after I had discouraged him because of the high tuition costs, but then we received a financial aid award that pretty much closed the gap. But the good thing for my son was that he was prepared to take "no" for an answer -- he knew that he was a smart kid with a lot of good choices, and he didn't get his heart set on anything -- he would have been willing to attend any of the schools he applied to. So I really think that the best attitude is to expand your options by applying to the colleges that seem like financial reaches as well as the ones you are sure you can attend -- the most you have to lose is the application fee. But you never know what opportunities will come your way.</p>

<p>It's silly to argue with your Dad ....much easier to humor him at this point, knowing that the ultimate decisions will be made when you have acceptances in hand. In fact - if you debate too much now, you will only force your Dad to get more set in his opinions.... better to let him think whatever he wants to think -- while you go right ahead and do what you feel that you have to or want to.</p>

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<p>Celebrian, do I not remember correctly that a few months ago on this board you posted about being depressed that you could not leave Ohio although you desperately wanted to? My heart went out to you when I read that so I think I'm remembering right. Perhaps you are seneing your parents mixed messeges? It sounds like they care deeply that you enjoy your college experience. Why don't you apply to some financial reaches that give merit money and some financial safeties. Then decide in April.</p>

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<p>I'd suggest you ask your Dad if he would accompany you on a spring break tour of several schools - including Ohio State, Miami, maybe someplace like the College of Wooster or Kenyon. Ask him to keep an open mind and reassure him that you will also keep an open mind. On the trip, talk about the pro's and con's of the different schools - ask him for his thoughts on BOTH. Then, keep the lines of communication open - maybe agree to apply to one or two smaller schools to satisfy him with the understanding that you will also apply to the larger schools you think you prefer. Celebrian, I feel as thought I know you well enough to know that you are a good kid and I am sure your Dad and Mom know this as well --- some parents just have a hard time understanding that college is really the child's choice and get scared when they see that they will no longer have control over a child's life. </p>

<p>I have learned this from my daughter - the schools she is interested in are very different from what I would pick for her if I was doing the picking. I have to keep hitting myself on the side of the head to remind myself that she is a good kid and that I have to trust her judgement.</p>

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<p>I sometimes wonder if your my mom Carolyn, you're like my cc mom. I will apply to a bit of everything, and I did have an earlier thread about being depressed I couldn't leave Ohio, but it was more I was sad at the fact I didn't have the OPTION of leaving, it just took some rectrospect to get it. I'll apply to a few I think I have no chance of getting into, a few out-of-state publics, a few instate privates and publics, and of course a financial/academic safety (most likely good ol' ohio state) Thank you for your mounds of advice</p>

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<p>Celebrian, Does your dad know how much those small private schools he's pushing are going to cost? I know that my husband had no idea of what college costs these days - he just about fell off of his chair when I forced him to look at some actual numbers. In-state public might start looking good to your Dad when he realizes how much money he'll save.Hang in there - it is still early in the process and you and your Dad are bound to both change your minds a lot over the next year. It will all work out.</p>

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<p>Ohio has some wonderful small private schools that offer generous merit aid. Kenyon, Denison, Wooster, Wittenburg, Ohio Wesleyan, Ottobein to name a few. Ohio University, is not as large as OSU, and is a state school with a private feel. Some of these schools are still open for apps.</p>

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<p>celebrian -</p>

<p>calmom has a set of excellent, practical suggestions to keep the sparks from flying now, yet help you get what you want in the long run. I'd suggest rereading her post above and following that strategy.</p>

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<p>You belong at Kent State or UToledo/BGSU young celebrian. Those schools offer what you want, and can get you out of Dublin. Don't go to Kenyon, Oberlin, or College of Wooster; your dad wouldn't be able to afford that. OSU would be the ultimate choice, but your dad probably wouldn't go for that. (I wish I had gone to OSU, I love those parties SO much LOL)</p>

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<p>Celebrian. . . your minority status and gpa (to-date) qualify you at many fine schools. Calmom has some great advice, and adding solid test scores to your application will get you a lot of acceptances. Look for schools that would likely offer you merit and/or minority scholarship aid and that offer your majors. </p>

<p>I would think about a way you and your father could discuss finances, as it would appear that you could be wrong about your family's financial capacity or your Dad could be underestimating costs. Calmom's strategy obviates the need to do this, but if you get some understanding in that area you can develop a better list of app schools. </p>

<p>It does look like you and your father agree that you should get out of Ohio, but in a state as big as Ohio you could get a reasonable distance from home without leaving it. This leads me to suggest Ohio University as an option. It isn't urban, but it is a good-sized school that offers your majors and has some excellent programs. There is an out-of-state poster on this board (Digimedia) whose son chose Ohio U. Search for his posts and see if you can get an objective, non-Ohio view of the school.</p>

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<p>I can understand your fathers concerns, I would worry that being too close might reduce your overall college experience. I also know that with my children I let them make their own decisions, but stand ready with the web sites and information that can help them. Okay on occassion I tell them when I think they need to do something, like pick a safety school, but it is the student's life and so...the student's decision. Some private schools can cost the same or even less than a state when aid is considered...look at those numbers...there is a right school for you.</p>

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<p>Celebrian,</p>

<p>I would think you might qualify for merit money at OSU (you probably have a good chance at the honors college...are you thinking of post secondary option classes next year to show your father the goood side of OSU??), Oberlin..strong science (I knew someone who got half tuition between various scholarships including one for staying in Ohio), Kenyon, Rice..strong science..lots of endowment money, Wittenberg, Indiana, Umich and last but not least UWisc. Sorry for jumping around, but my S has gotten some very promising info from these schools. Indiana's was amazing!</p>

<p>Good luck....btw.. you gotta live on campus!</p>

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<p>Celebrian, I think that you should first visit a broad range of colleges with your parents, including Ohio State. You may moderate your conception and your parents may moderate theirs. Believe me at a big university you can be as anonymous as you want to be. Intro classes will be large, tough they are usually supplemented with smaller tutorial sections of 20-30 students so you will not be able to totally hide.</p>

<p>But like I told Buckeyemom, a big university like OSU is comprised of many pieces, a huge number of clubs and student organization, hundreds of academic departments, and a wide diversity of students. I went to a large state university where there were 37 students in my department's graduating class. Yep, I knew every one of my class mates.</p>

<p>The party school reputation is just that, a reputation. Is it true? Well for some it is well deserved. But for many others it decidedly isn't. And does you father think that some Princetonians don't party hard come Friday nite. Basically he needs to trust you to use some judgement in your selection of friends.</p>

<p>If your father does not change his attitude, I would not recommend attending OSU as a commuting student. College is a time to leave the nest and experience the joys and pratfalls of independence. Also, living so close to home is not an ideal situation for most students even if they are living on campus. Its just too easy to run home for whatever reason. Only you can judge if this would be a problem for yourself.</p>

<p>Finally there is not reason to go out of state as your dad suggests. Ohio has many fine public and private colleges. Case has a fine biomed program and is in Cleveland, more than an hour from Columbus. Then there are other publics like Miami, OU, BGU, Cincinnati, and others.</p>

<p>Again, visit a number of colleges first and then sit down with your parents as see if you can come to some agreement.</p>