<p>rmldad: 200K and 300K are worlds apart. 200K with take home of 150K, 60K private college leaves 90K. 300K with take home of 225K, leaves 165K. It’s not hard to live on the latter unless you are in a very expensive area, have private K-12 tuition etc. </p>
<p>As a physician, I was in the first group when my kid started at a private U. I added moonlighting job(s) to join the 2nd group. Not feeling pinched as we still live the same lifestyle we did on 200K.</p>
<p>Don’t feel sorry for the poor doctors.</p>
<p>As others have said, I think where kids go has a lot to do with parent(s) experiences. I see a lot of parallels in what the kids are doing compared to what their parents did.</p>
<p>OP here. Thanks for the interesting replies. Some thoughts --</p>
<p>In our area, primary care physicians are making $185K – this would be family docs, internal medicine physicians and pediatricians. Make no mistake, 185K is good money. But it’s not in the realm of “if money were no concern.” </p>
<p>Regarding the state flagship, thirty years ago, when I was a college student, our state flagship was “open enrollment” – if you had a high school diploma, you could go there. (You could also pay for it yourself with a good summer job and a part-time job during the school year.) Today, the flagship is pretty competitive, and some of the programs are excellent. My tax dollars at work, I say. The flagship uses merit scholarship money to lure very desirable students. Something like 25 percent of all students are OOS. Even paying OOS tuition, the flagship is still $10K to $15K less than a private per year. </p>
<p>I think it’s interesting that most (many?) parents envision a college experience for their children that is similar to their own. But I think that’s changing, too.</p>
<p>@ihs76 - I’m not feeling sorry for poor doctors. Rather, I am pointing out that “high income” families can feel the pinch that you would have if moonlighting was not an option for whatever reason (geographic limitations, family obligations, etc.).</p>
<p>High cost of living areas and private secondary school are only two potential complications. Some doctors deal with divorce(s), including alimony and child support, business deals/investments that went bad but still need paid off, or supporting extended family. All these certainly deal with lifestyle choices (and don’t necessarily merit pity), but they all weigh into the decision on how much money is available for college.</p>
<p>Finally, perhaps some doctors simply feel Flagship U is a more prudent choice than moonlighting, or other lifestyle compromises.</p>
<p>I think that it varies by regions. In areas in which many of the top students go to state flagships (Midwest, CA, NC, VA), and many top students from other states dream of going to those out of state flagships, I would not be surprised if those students include the offspring of physicians. In areas in which state flagships are not held in as high regard (Northeast, for example), in which fewer of the top students go to state flagships, I would not be surprised if those top students also do not include many of the offspring of physicians.</p>
<p>If my kid’s state flagship were on a par with, say, UVA or UNC, I would not be surprised to see a lot of top kids in her class go there, regardless of parental occupation. But it’s not, and around here, the top flagship is seen as a safety. Most top students go private, regardless of parental occupation.</p>
<p>As I learned in statistics, “correlation does not imply causation.”</p>
<p>My H did not go to a public university for undergrad or med school. When he was done with med school, he was in big debt. It took quite a while for us to dig out of that debt (my undergrad debt was also added to the total). We do not want our kids to have large debt when they finish undergrad/grad/professional school. One child is applying to med school and we hope he gets into one of our public med schools. If he ends up at a private, we will help him, but he will also have loans. We made our kids aware of our school debt, the monthly payments, and how long it took to pay off. Unless one of our kids needed a unique program that could only be found at a private university, the big bills did not make sense. </p>
<p>rmldad - In our circle of friends I am not seeing a big difference in school choice based on physician salary. We have friends from family docs to plastic surgeons with kids at UNC-CH, UNCC, UNCW, UNCA, UNC School of the Arts, ECU, NC State, and App State.</p>
<p>I’m originally from the Northeast. Like frugaldoctor in the midwest, I see a very different attitude toward state universities here in NC. Many kids will go to a private K-12, or 9-12, and then go to a public university.</p>
<p>I think anyone who has a child interested in graduate school of any kind would do well to keep costs down as much as possible for undergrad degree. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that high stat kids often find that 2nd tier privates have a lower COA than their state flagship because of generous merit aid at the privates.</p>
<p>The area I used to live in consisted mostly of “millionaires next door”. It is absolutely true that most such families send their children to state schools. They earned their wealth gradually through low to mid 6 figure incomes and never overspending. It was only natural for them to keep that philosophy.</p>
<p>I know several doctors who urged their child to go to Berkeley or UCLA rather than Stanford. Many obliged.</p>
<p>BUandBC82, the other observation I made is the quality of life outside the NE is so much better IMHO. Most physicians earn more, experience a significant lower cost of living, less traffic and have comparable primary/secondary educational opportunities. In fact, they are the ones who could afford to send their children to prestigious private universities and they don’t. Don’t get me wrong, I love NYC, Boston and DC but I couldn’t imagine practicing there after my experience in the Midwest.</p>
<p>Hmm, the doctors I know have sent their kids to:
Family 1
Yale
Wesleyan
not going to college, apprenticing as a cook in a local well regarded restaurant
Family 2
Brown
Wesleyan
Family 3
Barnard
Northwestern
Family 4
Harvard
Yale (and now in med school)</p>
<p>and all the PhD’s working at Med Schools also all have their kids in private universities.</p>
<p>frugaldoctor - Our experience is similar. Lower cost of living, better salary, and improved professional opportunities. Moving definitely helped us pay off our debt with less impact to lifestyle.</p>
<p>H is a primary care doc, making under 200K (BTW, if you make 200K–tell me how you “take home 150K?” Isn’t it more like $115 after taxes, etc.?? Also, tell me about primary care docs making 300K.)
We have 7 kids. Four in post college/college/college application process. Our kids were either homeschooled or attended public high school, so few expenses there. Two oldest went to small Catholic LACs. Next two are taking NM full rides at OOS public. #3 was happy to take the full ride. #4 would like to attend same LAC as #1. Unfortunately, that LAC gives no merit aid and we are full-pay. We let #1 turn down NM ride for this school. We have been under stress of paying out of pocket 20-50K per year (one year overlap) for the last 7 years, (Kid#2 had some merit aid at a different LAC). Our vehicles are 12-14 years old. Our house (not a “doctor’s house”) and yard need work that we’ve put off. I feel that this is a moral dilemma, but I am tired of the financial stress. We have to think about our younger kids, too. So we are “forcing” kid #4 to take the scholarship. And very happy our kids have had this choice. (We have no savings for a complex reasons–not a typical doctor’s family. H started his career late, for one thing. . .) An acquaintance of mine recently bragged that it was cheap/easy for her kids to attend this LAC because their income is low and the school has GREAT need-based aid. I feel that the school has narrowed its applicant pool to the very wealthy (who can easily pay 30K+ per year), and the very poor, who will be asked to borrow only 4K per year, given work study, and have the rest written off. It is just too much of an impact on those with incomes “just high enough” not to qualify for aid. </p>
<p>D has a bunch of friends who are in med school/dental school. Many doctors’ kids. Most went to state u. Many top students go there. We are in the Midwest, and most people are not into Ivy prestige. Also, east coast culture is different, and does not appeal to everyone. Add travel expenses/logistics, a good state u./big merit aid, pull of family and friends–you can see why most people like to stay close to home. (And that’s not even counting football, which we’re not into). H is a Yale grad, btw. He did not encourage kids to apply to Ivies. </p>
<p>My nephews, sons of 2 primary care docs, all attend/ed state u. </p>
<p>The student mentioned upthread who turned down Harvard went to Baylor. She liked the people/Christian atmosphere there, and, though not a Texas resident, she did have family ties to Texas. She did it for fit , not money; she would’ve gone nearly free to either school. My son had a roommate who was admitted to Harvard and chose NM full ride at OOS public. From one of those HENRY families. He did it for the money.</p>
<p>Midwest physician couple here. Most physicians are bright, not gifted. Many can afford any college. I knew a smart physician who had one child go to Stanford and another to an instate public U (not the flagship). It was a matter of ability- he didn’t pay extra just so the less smart child could go to a private school when there was an excellent instate public choice. Another physician with gifted kids paid for elite private U’s. We are liberal and our gifted son was young, not perfect grades and too stubborn to let us see (much less help) with essays. He only applied to 3 colleges and did well in our flagship’s honors program. We couldn’t get him to apply to more of the top schools and would not encourage him to apply to many CCers consider good because our flagship is better. Another physician in a different Midwest state’s 2 kids both got merit money from Wash U- a better choice academically than their flagship and good for premed but not as good as our flagship academically (son has zero interest in medicine and did not take the prerequisites).</p>
<p>Region does matter. It is very convenient for east coast kids to go to some elite private schools and be close to home, plus have many peers from nearby. Their public U’s are not ranked as highly as some of us in lucky, mainly Midwest, states. Some of the prestige of many of the northeastern schools comes from the sheer numbers who live there.</p>
<p>I know of two physicians who did their undergrad schooling at Harvard, another at MIT who all ended up practicing alongside some equally smart physicians in ordinary cities in our area. They had different college experiences than I did as a NMS who couldn’t afford expensive schools. However, I had Honors program experiences in a top ten Chemistry program along with a beautiful campus. One HS classmate who was also a NMS and in the same Honors lit section one semester has taught English at Berkeley forever.</p>
<p>Most physician’s kids are not academic superstars. The wave of dual physician couples still has kids who are too young for college (numbers only soared in the 1980’s). In my class some of the dual physician couples some have gone private, others public. </p>
<p>Physicians are professionals, most are not academicians. Being a good/excellent physician requires ability but not the same academic ability as going to grad school for a PhD. Choosing an elite superstar college is not necessary.</p>
<p>It wouldn’t be surprising that physicians who live and practice in the NE would send their kids to prestigious schools in the NE. Proximity to family and the “culture” with which they are familiar and comfortable is right in line with those in other areas of the country who wish to remain in semi close proximity to family. </p>
<p>I forgot, why are we discussing where doctors send their kids as opposed to lawyers or investment bankers, or any other professional types? What is the relevance of this?</p>
<p>Children of doctors (with whom I’m friendly) have almost all attended privates–Middlebury, Bowdoin, Davidson, Boston University, Wellesley, Duke, and Amherst. Only one doctor’s kid who went public (among the group I know–5 families) went to UMass Honors College in Amherst. That kid had a completely free ride because one parent taught at UMass Medical School.</p>
<p>Regarding moonlighting, a lot of physicians are already working 70 hours week and have little time for moonlighting. Also, depending on their employment contracts, they many not be able to moonlight because their time is, essentially, “owned” by their employer.</p>
<p>Atomom. Great insight there on all of your postings. The last one resonated with me! I couldn’t imagine moonlighting. When would I ever sleep. Plus I would have to ask my owner if I am allowed to moonlight LOL!</p>
<p>The MD next door sent three kids to Dayton and one to Virginia Tech. Two of them are MDs, one is a vet/ Ph.D., and one is a teacher with a master’s in training.</p>
<p>You are talking about the difference between living in major urban areas and living in either small cities or the country. I can assure you that if you chose to live in Maine, Western Mass, NH, VT, most of RI, much of CT–in other words, MOST of New England–you would encounter little traffic, lower cost of living, and a great quality of life.</p>
<p>Last time I checked, Chicago was in the midwest. Think you would encounter lower costs and less traffic there? Think again.</p>
<p>Geez, people make so much of these prestige/elite issues on CC. The answer of why doctors send their kids to state schools is simple, and the same reason non-doctors send their kids to state schools. Its the smart move. Most people recognize how ridiculously expensive private educations are these days and also recognize that at the undergrad level, a good quality state education is perfectly okay. </p>
<p>My daughter recently allowed me to be her friend on facebook. She started at a Directional State U with about 15K students and joined a sorority. I have looked at all of her new Sorority friends on facebook, and many of them went to expensive private college prep schools, but they all still selected the State School for college. Why spend 45K in tuition when you can spend only 5K or so on tuition and still get a great education?</p>
<p>On the other hand, we have a friend who is a working man, an hourly worker, whose daughter is very bright. He sent his daughter to the University of Miami, where credit hours are as high as $1750 per credit. With the 14K tuition discount, this guy is paying only a little over 31 K in tuition for his daughter’s First year in college, before getting to room and board. </p>
<p>How is he possibly affording this? I have no idea, and didn’t feel it was my business to ask if he was borrowing money or co-signing loans to send her. If he is, I feel very bad for him. I did not have the heart to tell him how that debt may well follow his daughter and himself for life,or at least for the next 25 years.</p>
<p>Since when is the U of Miami a “prestige/elite” school? Falls into the category of “mediocre/decent expensive college not worth paying for unless you have money to burn” for me. (YMMV, as always. Let the cries of outrage begin. Maybe I should list some others in order to be an equal opportunity offender.)</p>