WayOutWestMom…these are incredible links! Thank you!
More data:
[Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools by State of Legal Residence, 2008-2009 through 2017-2018](https://www.aamc.org/download/321460/data/factstablea3.pdf)
[Matriculants to U.S. Medical Schools by State of Legal Residence, 2008-2009 through 2017-2018](https://www.aamc.org/download/321462/data/factstablea4.pdf)
Maryland produces about 1000-1200 applicants for allopathic (MD) med school each year. About 500-525 of them matriculate somewhere each year.
Approx 13% matriculate instate at one of the 3 medical schools located in MD (UMD, JHU and USUHS); the other 34% who do get an acceptance matriculate OOS. The rest (53%) are not accepted anywhere.
[Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools by In or Out-of-State Matriculation Status, 2017-2018](https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf)
In terms of being to attend an in-state med school, Maryland is one of the worst places to live–right up there with California.
From knowing the results of my children’s friends I would recommend direct admit or combined BS/MD programs if your student is solid on the idea of med school. Their friends that did BA/BS degree often did a gap year or a Masters before med school. Extra $$$.
A gap year doesn’t mean extra $$$ if the young person spends it working.
In some instances, a gap year is necessary because the student did not complete the courses that prepare you for the MCAT early enough in college for one reason or another. If the student takes these courses late and takes the MCAT late, it isn’t possible to go to medical school immediately. But so what? It’s not a race.
Students may wait for other reasons, too. One of my college roommates worked for three years after college and paid off her undergraduate debt during that time. Then she went to medical school – at one of the top medical schools in the country.
There are LOTS of medical school students who don’t attend immediately after graduating from undergrad school.
@MaterS those direct admit BS/MD programs are as competitive for admissions applications to the Ivy League schools. Students need to be tippy top students…Tippy top…to be considered for these direct admit programs.
A gap year or two is becoming increasingly more common. Med schools want to be sure that you really, really want to be a doctor. Taking 1-2 years to continue exploring other options … and then coming back and applying…let’s them know you can seriously answer the “why” question. It also allows time to complete requirements, shadowing etc.
Is the reason for a premed gap year usually due to being shut out the first time and wanting to try again?
That could be a reason… ^…
My daughter met with a premed advisor, and I spoke with a family member currently in med school. Both said that a gap year or 2 is very common now… and the family member told me that being able to genuinely answer the “why medicine” question… Is critical. He took 3 years to teach and volunteer prior to medical school… and he felt it made him a stronger candidate and able to sincerely answer the “why” question.
Sometimes it’s to take the required courses for med school admission. Sometimes it’s because the student didn’t get accepted the first time they applied.
But very often it’s because the newly minted bachelors student wants to get some real life experiences before they apply to grad school. Could be a job (maybe CNA or EMT or the like). Might be something like the Peace Corps, or Teach for America. One gal we know did a year with Americorps.
There are a lot of varied reasons why a person might not apply to medical school directly out of undergrad.
WayOutWestMom, thanks for the stats/links those were exactly what I was looking for!
MaterS, so you recommend programs like Brown’s direct BS/MD program? That is the only one I know about. Do you know a good site I can get info on others?
Thanks everyone! This was my first question on CC and I am learning a lot!
The BS/MD direct admit programs are amongst the most highly competitive of college admission.
Also, keep in mind…once a student enters the professional part of these programs, they are no longer eligible for undergrad aid in many cases. So…buyer beware.
The BS/MD programs are highly highly competitive. My daughter was invited to apply to the one at Pitt after getting their full tuition scholarship. She began the application process and then stopped because she was not sure if this was the route she wanted to take. Besides having the grades and scores etc… they asked about research done in HS. The one person we know who was accepted to the program at Penn State… was #1 in her HS class ( and I am sure many #1’s don’t make it).
Here’s a list of BA/MD programs–[Medical Schools Offering Combined Undergraduate/MD Programs](https://students-residents.aamc.org/applying-medical-school/article/medical-schools-offering-combined-undergraduatemd-/)
There’s subforum devoted to BA/MD programs here on CC [Multiple Degree Programs](Multiple Degree Programs - College Confidential Forums)
BA/ MD applicants are Ivy-level students. They have top ACT/SAT scores, top GPAs, AP classes in sciences/math, plus they are expected to have shown a strong commitment to medicine through community service, hospital volunteering, and physician shadowing. Additionally, some programs expects applicants to have hands on laboratory research experience.
If you're interested in what medical school admission offices look for in applicants, see p. 5 of [Using</a> MCAT Data in 2018 Medical Student Selection](<a href="https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/mcatguide.pdf%5DUsing">https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/mcatguide.pdf) It's annual survey of medical school admission offices that includes ranking of what's important and what's less important.
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if GPA and MCAT scores are the two most important factors getting into med school than should you go to an "easy" undergrad to get highest GPA possible?
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For the record, GPA & MCAT are just the first screening filter applied; they're not the most important factor for getting accepted to med school.
As far as undergrads go, there'e easy and then there's "easy". Adcomms are well aware of the reputations and academic rigor of all the typical feeder colleges in their region. So picking a highly grade inflated school can backfire on an applicant by devaluing their accomplishments. While your D doesn't need to graduate from HYPMS to get a med school acceptance, neither should she shortchange herself by going to a 'never heard of it' directional state teacher's college or a tiny religious school in the middle of the woods with the idea she will get better grades there.
When choosing a college, you & your D need to consider that 67-75% of all freshmen pre-meds never actually get around to applying to medical school. There are tons of reasons, most of which are not academic. It's a very long and often tedious journey to get to med school and most students will not persist. Make sure any college your D decides upon would one she would be happy to attend if med school wasn't in her future.
To maximize your D’s chances for a medical school admission, the best thing you can do is move your family to a state that has highly protected in-state admissions and accepts a high percentage of in-state applicants: Vermont, Nebraska, North Dakota, Indiana, Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi.Oklahoma, South Carolina, West Virginia, or Texas.
/tongue-in-cheek
It’s also a long and tedious journey after you get into med school. Earning your MD is only the beginning. There’s more training ahead, in the form of residencies and fellowships, and you may not be ready to join a private practice and settle into a normal adult lifestyle until your 30s. Some people are willing to live this way; others aren’t.
@Roark345 my D met with a premed advisor recently and this is what she was told:
GPA and mcat scores are impt ( your D should attend a school where she can achieve a high gpa)
Shadowing is impt -as is a plan - often starting with the pediatrician
Leadership…what school will your D likely have these positions?
Volunteering with underserved populations etc
My D has a lot of research… This may or may not matter, depending …
Letters of recommendation- where will your D likely develop relationships with profs and others who can write them?
Gap year… Or 2. This is becoming more and more common and allows students to continue volunteering etc and really solidify their decision to apply… Or not. My family member taught in an inner city for 2 years before deciding to apply.
The very first question my D was asked when she sat down with the advisor as he reviewed her “stuff” was… Are you also having fun…? . because that is also impt… ( she is having fun - doing what interests her). You like rock climbing? Make sure you take the time to do it!! You are interested in bird watching? There is no reason why you should not pursue this.
Your D should ideally attend a school where she can achieve all of the above… and at the same time enjoy her time in college, going out with friends and doing things she loves doing. The people on CC who are giving me advice ( @WayOutWestMom etc) have been extremely generous with their time and knowledge…
One last thing… Some students enter college on a premed track and never leave it. Some ( like my D) continue on the premed track and truly enjoy the road there… But still question whether they will actually apply… Today it’s yes, tomorrow it might be no… only to flip back to a yes. And many premeds drop it once the heavy sciences kick in. Be prepared for anything even if your D is convinced today. There is an application strategy…and yes it’s a very long road once you get in ( IF you get in). Asking if attending UMd will make it “easier” to get in… makes the process sound simplified… when it’s not.
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Lastly, if GPA and MCAT scores are the two most important factors getting into med school than should you go to an "easy" undergrad to get highest GPA possible?
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That’s why I am trying to fine out if it’s easier to get into UMD med school if you go there undergrad. If it’s a yes then it would solve three of the issues 1. Getting into med school 2. affordable undergrad 3. Getting high GPA. But does not solve the “dream school” or “fun” factor.
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the premed prereqs won’t be easy at any good undergrad. However, going to a reach school can often mean ending up with a lower GPA simply because there are so many super stars there, so the competition for As will be tougher. If you were a very good runner, which group would you rather run against in a race? A college team or an Olympic team?
One of the most common mistakes premeds make is attending a reach or even a high-match school. Best to go to a school that you like but will also be one of the super stars.
As for med schools like Johns Hopkins…often they do NOT show any preference to their own undergrad applicants. They want diversity, so their classes are often filled with students from 50+ colleges. It’s a common mistake for students/parents to think that attending a certain private school will be their ticket to their med school.
Btw…the “dream” should be the future life…career, family, etc. not 4 years of undergrad.
I am a medical student in my last year and I like commenting in these types of threads since I had a bumpy road to medical school.
If we put aside the (very reasonable) question of medicine being “worth it,” I found that the most successful candidates had a strong desire backed by immersive experiences, hit the ground running early with curriculum planning, treated school like a job, and were stronger students than their peers in the entering class. Sure, if she wants to take a year or two to work in the field or do something else, it’s an option, but feeling that you need to do things to improve your application is anxiety laden and is best avoided.
Before we even talk about paying for medical school, I have found that peers who had ability to pay for tutors, take summer classes, or do extracurricular things over the summers instead of working fared better admissions wise.
In my opinion, you need your daughter’s “buy in” in the college choice for her to be successful. So have these conversations, but let her take the risks as she sees them (within reasonable financials parameters, of course).
I think YMMV in terms of what you are saying regarding not directly entering medical school right after bachelors degrees. Perhaps that was the case at your school…for the year you applied.
Many medical schools are looking more holistically at applicants. In addition, the requisite courses have changed since your application and admission year…with an increase in things OTHER than just sciences. The reality is most medical school applicants have strong grades, and good (enough) MCAT scores to pass that bar. But some schools now look at the real world, not just college, experiences applicants bring to the table. They want a varied group of new student doctors, with a varied range of experiences they can bring to the table.
As noted upstream, the academics get you to the medical school. It’s the other things that get you IN.
Interesting…@worth2try…A few thoughts…
Treating school “like a job” goes against everything my daughter wants in her college and grad school experience. She loves to learn and be involved… because she loves it… not because it is her job. Maybe that is why she is on the fence right now…? … who knows… but treating this process like a job would send her running.
Taking a gap year is a good option for those who want time to try other things… which can help seal the deal and answer the “why medicine” question. Med schools want students who want to be there… and taking a year or two to learn that… is a positive. I don’t see it as anxiety laden… but rather… as a chance to explore all options or finish shadowing etc. I see it as a way to reduce anxiety.
You describe students who know from day #1 that they want medical school ( hit the ground running). Some don’t know until day #1000 and they still enter med school. Some enter medical school after working in a different field for 2-3 years.
Students who had money for tutors fared better? Better than what? Better than those with similar academic strengths without tutors? Ok- yes. But…Some students don’t need tutors … and still get A’s… while others manage to get tutors without spending money- there are low or no cost options.
Why is there an either/or for summers? Why is it EITHER extracurriculars OR working? Many students have paid summer internships and research positions, or paid positions working with underrepresented groups etc.
I agree that grades and scores get you to the door… but it’s the extras that help get you in. Those extras can be exploring a different career for a few years, doing the Peace Corp, TFA, being a Teaching Fellow, working with refugee populations… the list goes on.
I am no expert… I just do a lot of reading and ask a lot of questions. The OP seems to be approaching this from a different angle than I would.