<p>
</p>
<p>I agree. My HS junior has a good shot at the Ivies, but has zero interest in applying. His reasoning…“Why would I want to attend a college full of kids who are already locked in on their political views, isn’t college for expanding/challenging your ideals and not just validating them?”</p>
<p>LOL…</p>
<p>I just find that advice rather insulting. It suggests that right-leaning students are closed-minded and need to be exposed to new ideas (as if they haven’t already been exposed from most of their high school teachers and the media). More to the point, it suggests that left-leaning students are open-minded and therefore don’t need to seek a more politically-balanced campus. </p>
<p>Frankly, when a right-leaning student desires a more conservative campus, he probably just means a more moderate campus where conservative ideas won’t immediately be dismissed or ridiculed in classroom discussions.</p>
<p>^^ I think that is narrow-minded. I have a very politically/economically conservative son at an Ivy and he has enjoyed spirited debates and knows people on both sides who have changed viewpoints. Why would you say that bright, young people would not be open (as an entire class) to expanding/challenging ideals?</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Because of numerous stories of students who’ve had their ideas ridiculed (not necessarily by students) by profs in their classrooms. However, once some students see that their prof is ridiculing an opposing idea, it’s easy for them to join in and pile on. Also, sometimes a prof can be sooooo strident in his positions that that can discourage a student from putting forth an opposing viewpoint.</p>
<p>I applaud a prof (or teacher) who is left-leaning or right-leaning (or somewhere in the middle) that encourages all kinds of discussions. My children had a very left-leaning teacher freshman year of high school, but she never let anyone put down any student for their thoughts or ideas. She was very beloved and missed when she retired. On the other hand, they had a teacher who was “over the top” in the way that she would not allow opposing thoughts to be put forth. That teacher had to be reprimanded.</p>
<p>I was actually responding to kajon’s post and momof2’s got in there before I posted. (just to clarify)</p>
<p>I think you have to sort of know what you are getting into. For example, a politically conservative kid would probably not be that interested in Brown, even though not EVERYONE on the campus is a screaming liberal! But at some of the other Ivy schools there is more of a mix. Especially Penn because of Wharton.</p>
<p>“Why would I want to attend a college full of kids who are already locked in on their political views, isn’t college for expanding/challenging your ideals and not just validating them?”</p>
<p>Is this because kids at the high end of academic achievement tend to have their minds already made up (whether Rep or Dem or Ind) more than kids at the lower levels?</p>
<p>^ That’s right. The best students often have attitudes somewhat formed on a few key issues by the time they choose a college. And the most selective, highly ranked schools are usually perceived as liberal. However, I think the reality is that the Ivies and other most selective schools are not as lefty/liberal as they are made out to be. My school (Chicago) was known for years as a hotbed of pinko leftists. That was, ironically, at the tail end of the formative years for the conservative Chicago School of Economics. I had one socialist professor, an innocuous old coot who had run for Vice President with Norman Thomas in the 30s. I knew two flaming Trotskyists there (and even they were as studious and law abiding as anyone else). I knew another fellow who idolized Richard Nixon, even looked and talked a little like him. Another friend was a very conservative Christian who planned to become a minister. Yet another was a stockbroker’s daughter who wanted to graduate and make a zillion dollars (I get the impression there are more and more like her lately). Most students were in the middle or liberal (not leftist). There was a mix, and great conversation among all of us. Compared to Europe, our campuses were then and I think are today pretty middle-of-the-road. Students here don’t call for general strikes. We do not have entire faculties devoted to Marxist Leninist doctrine. </p>
<p>And if a student on CC says s/he wants a “quirky” or “very liberal” school, we usually are talking about a lateral move among peer colleges at the top. From, say, Colgate and Dartmouth to Wesleyan and Reed. Either way, we’re talking about schools that attract kids with high grades and scores. There are exceptions, a few “alternative” schools like Warren Wilson. But how many students come on to College Confidential with high grades and scores to seek out schools like that?</p>
<p>It can be a useful exercise for students or parents to take a look at all the criteria on the college wish list, and see what happens to the list if you remove one of the criteria at a time. Lift the cap on cost per year, relax on wanting a co-ed school, consider something in a ruled-out geographic area or where your particular ethnicity/religion/major/politics/whatever aren’t well represented. See what you get, and reconsider if any of the new candidates are worth giving up one of the must-have or it’d-be-nice-to-have criteria.</p>
<p>From that perspective, it’s worthwhile for a kid who wants quirky to consider something more mainstream, or a kid who wants conservative to consider more liberal. They may each say no thanks, I really do want something more like Bard/Grove City than Grove City/Bard. But they may each find that there’s something to like at UVa or Rhodes or Northwestern or any one of the hundreds of schools mentioned on CC.</p>
<p>I have no problem that some kids feel that their political leanings are “set” by age 18 (even tho most of use know that adults do sometimes change as they age). </p>
<p>I just wonder why some posters chime in and tell students who want more conservatively-leaning colleges (which are usually just moderate), to be open to new ideas and stretch themselves, when those same posters don’t say that to students who say they want recommendations of liberal campuses. </p>
<p>I like campuses where kids from all sides throw out their thoughts and views and the views can be honestly debated based on the merits, not emotions. I like that because when the “other side” listens to a different view, they can either accept it or reject it, but still respect it because they will realize that each side has reasons for thinking the way that they do.</p>
<p>It can be a useful exercise for students or parents to take a look at all the criteria on the college wish list, and see what happens to the list if you remove one of the criteria at a time. Lift the cap on cost per year, relax on wanting a co-ed school, consider something in a ruled-out geographic area or where your particular ethnicity/religion/major/politics/whatever aren’t well represented. See what you get, and reconsider if any of the new candidates are worth giving up one of the must-have or it’d-be-nice-to-have criteria.</p>
<p>Kind of the “expand your comfort zone” approach…that applies to so much in life, doesn’t it! </p>
<p>Side note: Thanks to MoWC for the clarification. 
I misunderstood your post.</p>
<p>Kajon,</p>
<p>There seems to be some irony in the fact that your S says he wants to expand and challenge his ideals, as you stated below:</p>
<p>"My HS junior has a good shot at the Ivies, but has zero interest in applying. His reasoning…“Why would I want to attend a college full of kids who are already locked in on their political views, isn’t college for expanding/challenging your ideals and not just validating them?”</p>
<p>yet, he’s ready to dismiss the entire student bodies of 8 different universities based on some stereotype he’s heard?? Doesn’t sound like a very open-minded perspective.</p>
<p>When I was at Chicago Law there was a noted professor (dual university/law school) who refused to teach at the law school during the 3 years a certain “liberal” anti-war journalist was in attendance. The writer was Staughton Lynd and the prof was Constitutional law scholar Philip Kurland. I was pretty oblivious to the whole thing at the time.</p>
<p>I think ALL students should consider colleges regardless of political idealogy. I’m as liberal as they come and they didn’t stop me from applying to Bama. However, I would never apply to a Christian college(I’m a feminist atheist…there would be problems) So, it doesn’t make sense to stretch TOO far out of one’s comfort zones, but a little stretch is good for EVERYONE</p>
<p>That being said, I think sometimes liberal kids won’t pass on conservative schools, but conservative kids might pass on liberal schools if that makes sense. Liberal has become a dirty word, and many conservatives(obviously not all) view it almost as an insult. </p>
<p>Also, many of the top schools in the country(once again, not all) do tend to lean left. By cutting out liberal schools, you lose some of the tippy top. Cutting out conservative schools is not nearly as drastic</p>
<p>But then again, maybe my posts are terribly biased due to my own bleeding heart liberalism</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Rocket…I can’t see my screen because of the blood…LOLOLOL</p>
<p>I think kids need to refrain from assuming that a school is this or that based on its location. If there is hard evidence (like the school refused to let a conservative or a liberal speak at their campus over politics), then that is different. But, sometimes people assume simply based on location that a school is left-leaning or right-leaning. Many so-called conservative campuses really aren’t conservative…they are really just middle of the road. They “seem” more conservative because in contrast to left-leaning colleges, they are different.</p>
<p>^^ Rice is a good example. It is NOT conservative, but on these forums people frequently say “I won’t go to Rice because it’s in Texas and that means it’s too conservative.” That part of Houston is quite liberal, and Rice in particular is liberal to middle of the road.</p>
<p>^^just as a note, Princeton Review has Bama as the number 15 most conservative school in the country</p>
<p>Smith has been on the liberal list several times…so I think I’ve got good balance</p>
<p>EDIT: cross post with MOWC</p>
<p>I know that PR lists Bama as the number 15 conservative school in the country, but I don’t know what that really means. Does that just include National U’s? Does that mean that the others are so tilted to the left that anything towards the center seems extreme? LOL</p>
<p>There are many, many very liberal profs on campus. The students were big Obama supporters (yes, there were some McCain supporters, but the campus was definitely Obama-Land during the last election).</p>
<p>^I sure do hope so 
I love spirited debate, but hate to be the lonely liberal in the room</p>
<p>I am not exactly sure why my son has such a strong belief that all Ivy League schools are filled with Liberals. I am a fiscal conserv and social lib. My H is the opposite. We have continually told him that he can vocalize any political belief he chooses as long as he understands and respects both sides of the aisle.</p>
<p>I think his fiscal conservative head reared itself during the downturn of the economy. He is very upset that he and his peers will be responsible for this financial mess. Because the Catholic high school he attends is about 90-95% liberal, I think he has run up against a few teachers and many classroom discussions where those who lean left were not open to hearing the other side of the debate. (I agree that his comments put him in the same close minded category)</p>
<p>Who knows…maybe he is afraid of failure and this attitude is a defense mechanism. (If you don’t apply, you can’t get rejected)</p>
<p>But then he is only 16, so with maturity should come a willingness to accept all beliefs and additional common sense. (I hope)</p>
<p>At the risk of going back on subject, I’d recommend adding Purdue, Butler and Valpo to the list of schools for your son to consider. Both IU and Purdue have very good B Schools, and Purdue may be better than IU for economics. Butler and Valpo have B Schools that are well regarded regionally, and he may very well get merit money at both. Both Butler and Valpo have big-time basketball programs and active club and intramutal programs, and both are on the conservative side.</p>
<p>I’d have a very hard time recommending paying a substantial premium for an out of state public school like Michigan, North Carolina or Miami. He may not think that IU has a lot of cachet because so many of his classmates will go there, but I couldn’t see paying a premium of more than $100,000 over 4 years to attend those schools.</p>
<p>If he’s interested in smaller liberal arts colleges, the field opens up quite a bit.</p>
<p>I also can’t imagine paying much money for Miami or Michigan when IU is your state school. It is HUGE and he won’t be aware of the presence of his classmates from high school. I roomed with a girl from Indy my freshman year at IU. About half her high school class was at IU and she hardly ever saw any of them!</p>