Where should I go for undergrad CS: Berkeley or Caltech?

<p>Right now, I'm deciding between Caltech and Berkeley EECS for undergraduate CS. In terms of finding internships and jobs at companies like Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc., is a degree from one of the institutions more prestigious/valuable?</p>

<p>Here are a couple of key comparisons between the two schools that I have noticed (underlined aspects are more important):
[ul]
[li]Class size: Class size at Caltech is obviously smaller than Berkeley (35 CS majors vs. 300 EECS majors). Some lower div CS classes at Berkeley get as big as 200 students.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Classes offered: Caltech only has about 14 CS professors, whereas Berkeley has about 85 professors in EECS. At Caltech, they said that they didn't offer as great a variety of classes as schools like Berkeley because of the small department size. Caltech's CS is also very theoretical, according to both students and professors.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]AP credits: Caltech does not accept AP credits, but Berkeley does (allows me to get out of more lower division classes)</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Core requirements: Caltech's core is notorious for its rigor and difficulty (proof-based calculus anyone?) but makes me a better problem-solver and thinker (something interviewers like to see).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Semester vs. quarter system: Berkeley is on a 15 week semester system, whereas Caltech is on a 10 week quarter system. At Berkeley, I would have to take on average 4 classes a semester, but at Caltech, I would have to take 5 classes a quarter.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Cost: Berkeley is a lot cheaper than Caltech because I would pay in-state tuition (~$30,000 vs ~$55,000)</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Scholarships: Berkeley is offering me the Regents' Scholarship of $2500 per year. This guarantees me housing for four years, gives me priority registration for classes (a big deal at Berkeley), a personal Faculty sponsor, and the ability to join the Regents’ and Chancellor’s Scholars Association (which hosts faculty dinners, alumni dinners, etc.) I don't know if this would give me a significant leg up over other EECS students in terms of getting letters of recommendation, finding research, etc.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Housing: Housing is not a problem at Caltech. At Berkeley, I have the Regents' Scholarship, so I am guaranteed housing for four years.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Research: About 70% of Caltech undergrads do research, but only about 1/3 of EECS undergrads do research. Caltech pretty much throws research at you; at Berkeley, professors want you to have more upper div classes under your belt so that you are more useful. Also, I feel like at Berkeley, I would be competing with other EECS students for research opportunities. Caltech is conveniently situated near JPL, and Berkeley is situated near LBNL.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Internships/Jobs: Everyone at Caltech says that a Caltech degree opens a lot of doors for you, regardless of your major (one professor offered the example of a Caltech Mech. E student who is now working for Google). At Berkeley, I feel like I would be competing with my fellow peers for the same jobs/internships/positions. However, these Berkeley grads seem to be doing fine (<a href="https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm&lt;/a&gt;), and Berkeley is conveniently located in the Bay Area (I'm from the Bay). Berkeley has a larger alumni network because of its larger size and because Caltech students are more academically inclined (more pursue academic careers versus professional careers).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Environment: Berkeley is known for being cut-throat. Caltech seems very friendly and welcoming (more cooperative than competitive).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]GPA: The average GPA for Berkeley EECS is about 2.7 to 2.9. At Caltech, 130 of the 230 or so kids graduate with honors (3.5+ GPA)</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Double major: At Berkeley, I have the ability to pursue a joint major (EECS and Materials Science or EECS and Nuclear Engineering). At Caltech, a common double major for CS students is CS and Business, Economics, and Management (BEM).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Master's: Berkeley has a 5 year's master's program for highly qualified EECS students (roughly 10 to 15 EECS students).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Rankings: US News & World Report ranks Berkeley higher than Caltech for both computer engineering and EE (#4 and #3 vs. #8 and #7). Among people I've talked to in the Bay, they say that I should go to Caltech (more prestigious).[/li][/ul]</p>

<p>You seem to know everything about both programs. Other than cost, everything points to Caltech.</p>

<p>texaspg, any particular reason why?</p>

<p>Cost and prestige aside (although Caltech is overall far more prestigious), you will receive a more rigorous, personal, and overall far better education at Caltech. There’s no question in my mind as to which is better.</p>

<p>Berkeley may be ranked higher in that area, but rankings are really meaningless at the top level, so you must turn to other factors (class size, student body, etc).</p>

<p>The primary difference is that Caltech will force you to receive a more theoretical and broadly-based science education than Berkeley. Personally, I prefer more theory to more practical application, but this might not be your preference.</p>

<p>Caltech isn’t a ‘real’ college; it felt more like a high school when i did an overnight stay. if you wanna stay in your room and study all day/ night long without meeting many girls, then Caltech is the way to go; otherwise, i’d run the other way.</p>

<p>Just because the priorities of its students may be different from your own, does not mean the college’s status is any less legitimate.</p>

<p>Smaller classes, lot more access to professors, cutting edge research opportunities, SURF, internships as needed all point to Caltech. The only thing that surprises me is that Caltech students are expected to have a high GPA than Berkeley. No employer looks at the department rank when considering a caltech grad for internship or employment since they are considered superior to start with.</p>

<p>One attribute you do want to consider - which school is easier to get into for a California resident?</p>

<p>Congratulations on getting into top-tier schools. You are going to get an outstanding education, meet powerful people, and be well-connected in your professional field, as long as you don’t majorly screw up this opportunity. Now, you should probably stop comparing apples and oranges. Academically, you are set either way. You just need to visit both schools and decide based upon which environment you can see yourself enjoying more. A minor difference in the perceived quality of education should probably be far less influential on your decision than a large difference in environment, and the two schools’ environments are DRASTICALLY different. Which school did you enjoy visiting more?</p>

<p>“One attribute you do want to consider - which school is easier to get into for a California resident?”</p>

<p>=>Terrible advice imo. Is this person suggesting that you should just go to whatever school rejected the largest percentage of California resident applicants? If you are picking your school so that you can brag about getting into a selective school, then you should probably do a little bit of maturing before making a decision this big. I know a lot of people who regret making their college decisions that way.</p>

<p>“No employer looks at the department rank when considering a caltech grad for internship or employment since they are considered superior to start with.”</p>

<p>=>I agree here. You shouldn’t let a small difference in the rankings weigh heavily on your decision. Which school you choose does make a difference in an employer’s likelihood to call you in for an interview, but probably not as dramatic of a difference as a lot of people think. And once you go in for your first interview, that difference is completely erased. They’ll ask you a ton of technical questions, and whether or not you get hired depends almost solely upon how well you solved those technical problems on the spot, rather than upon which school you went to.</p>

<p>“If you are picking your school so that you can brag about getting into a selective school, then you should probably do a little bit of maturing before making a decision this big. I know a lot of people who regret making their college decisions that way.”</p>

<p>Bragging has nothing to do with it. If one is considering berkeley and going it has a superior ranking for EECS, the flipside to that is whether it is as hard to get into and would you regret not going there in 4 years?</p>

<p>The thing is, both schools have excellent programs. What immediate advantage do you get from choosing a school because they reject the largest percentage of people?</p>

<p>And to be clear, I think that both schools are so outstanding that neither of those things (the ranking and the acceptance rate) ought to be big decision points. If the OP was choosing between ASU and MIT, then it might be a different story.</p>

<p>If there is a financial burden on the family to spend an extra 100k to go to Caltech, I would not encourage it. </p>

<p>The difference is that in one school you will have lot more opportunities presented to you while in the other you will have to fight for them. There is one other attribute of a large program that concerns me and it may be a direct reflection of the 2.9 GPAs. The large programs are designed to weed people out to limit the survivors in CS. They try to make it so hard in the first year to force a lot of people to drop out.</p>

<p>I would say based on your post and the vibe that you are projecting, you would thrive at both schools. It would come down to cost, environment and other things. Personally as far as cities are concerned, I would prefer Berkeley than Pasadena but Caltech’s academic environment at the undergrad level is better than what Cal has to offer. If the money isn’t a big burden or anything, definitely Caltech. Also, to base your decision on the possibility of whether you will meet beautiful girls is terrible; that and partying are so overrated.</p>

<p>“The difference is that in one school you will have lot more opportunities presented to you while in the other you will have to fight for them.”</p>

<p>=> He’s going to be a Regents scholar, so he will have a lot of extra opportunities and consideration for opportunities. Also, while I’ve been at Berkeley, I have not had to fight for research opportunities. I actually just walked into a lab while I was bored between classes, and asked if they had any ideas on how I could get involved. That was it, and I am now assisting in their research.</p>

<p>“There is one other attribute of a large program that concerns me and it may be a direct reflection of the 2.9 GPAs. The large programs are designed to weed people out to limit the survivors in CS. They try to make it so hard in the first year to force a lot of people to drop out.”</p>

<p>=> I think that this is a much more legitimate concern than the acceptance rate, though I don’t think that the 2.9 average gpa is a terrible thing, as it is not too hard to get a 3.2+</p>

<p>I think that the two primary decision points should be cost and environment.</p>

<p>Wacker - are you doing CS? If so how many people started out the freshman year and how many are there now?</p>

<p>girls aren’t overrated!?!</p>

<p>I only know two people who started in the CS major that switched. I know one other person who switched out of EECS. I can’t say that I am 100% certain that it is a rare event, since I haven’t looked at any statistics on the issue – I just know that hardly anyone I know has dropped out of the major. What I can say is that the major is certainly not the dog-eat-dog, cutthroat environment which I expected when I first came. People are very cooperative, and I suspect that the graduation rate is quite high. The average gpa is a different story, but I don’t think it’s a huge deal, since it is very manageable to get at least a 3.2
The reason that I posted here was not to try to convince the OP to come to Berkeley. I just am often bothered by the fixation that people on these boards have on “prestige” for undergrad education. It is way over-emphasized on CC, when it is really very unimportant for an undergrad.</p>

<p>And on the issue of girls: I think that it adds enormously to a person’s experience to be able to interact with a diverse group of people. I love my engineer friends, but being around engineers 24/7 gets very old, and it is very refreshing to spend time with other types of people. I don’t think that it is stupid to consider the diversity of a school’s student body when evaluating the options. You are going to be spending the next 4 years of your life with those people, and some of them will be your closest friends for the rest of your life, so you better make sure that you are going to college with people whose company you enjoy!</p>

<p>wacker - are you in CS?</p>