<p>Right now, I'm deciding between Berkeley EECS and Caltech for undergraduate CS. In terms of finding internships and jobs at companies like Facebook, Amazon, Google, etc., is a degree from one of the institutions more prestigious/valuable?</p>
<p>Here are a couple of key comparisons between the two schools that I have noticed (underlined aspects are more important):
[ul]
[li]Class size: Class size at Caltech is obviously smaller than Berkeley (35 CS majors vs. 300 EECS majors). Some lower div CS classes at Berkeley get as big as 200 students.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Classes offered: Caltech only has about 14 CS professors, whereas Berkeley has about 85 professors in EECS. At Caltech, they said that they didn't offer as great a variety of classes as schools like Berkeley because of the small department size. Caltech's CS is also very theoretical, according to both students and professors.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]AP credits: Caltech does not accept AP credits, but Berkeley does (allows me to get out of more lower division classes)</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Core requirements: Caltech's core is notorious for its rigor and difficulty (proof-based calculus anyone?) but makes me a better problem-solver and thinker (something interviewers like to see).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Semester vs. quarter system: Berkeley is on a 15 week semester system, whereas Caltech is on a 10 week quarter system. At Berkeley, I would have to take on average 4 classes a semester, but at Caltech, I would have to take 5 classes a quarter.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Cost: Berkeley is a lot cheaper than Caltech because I would pay in-state tuition (~$30,000 vs ~$55,000)</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Scholarships: Berkeley is offering me the Regents' Scholarship of $2500 per year. This guarantees me housing for four years, gives me priority registration for classes (a big deal at Berkeley), a personal Faculty sponsor, and the ability to join the Regents and Chancellors Scholars Association (which hosts faculty dinners, alumni dinners, etc.) I don't know if this would give me a significant leg up over other EECS students in terms of getting letters of recommendation, finding research, etc.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Housing: Housing is not a problem at Caltech. At Berkeley, I have the Regents' Scholarship, so I am guaranteed housing for four years.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Research: About 70% of Caltech undergrads do research, but only about 1/3 of EECS undergrads do research. Caltech pretty much throws research at you; at Berkeley, professors want you to have more upper div classes under your belt so that you are more useful. Also, I feel like at Berkeley, I would be competing with other EECS students for research opportunities. Caltech is conveniently situated near JPL, and Berkeley is situated near LBNL.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Internships/Jobs: Everyone at Caltech says that a Caltech degree opens a lot of doors for you, regardless of your major (one professor offered the example of a Caltech Mech. E student who is now working for Google). At Berkeley, I feel like I would be competing with my fellow peers for the same jobs/internships/positions. However, these Berkeley grads seem to be doing fine (<a href="https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm%5B/url%5D">https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm</a>), and Berkeley is conveniently located in the Bay Area (I'm from the Bay). Berkeley has a larger alumni network because of its larger size and because Caltech students are more academically inclined (more pursue academic careers versus professional careers).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Environment: Berkeley is known for being cut-throat. Caltech seems very friendly and welcoming (more cooperative than competitive).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]GPA: The average GPA for Berkeley EECS is about 2.7 to 2.9. At Caltech, 130 of the 230 or so kids graduate with honors (3.5+ GPA)</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Double major: At Berkeley, I have the ability to pursue a joint major (EECS and Materials Science or EECS and Nuclear Engineering). At Caltech, a common double major for CS students is CS and Business, Economics, and Management (BEM).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Master's: Berkeley has a 5 year's master's program for highly qualified EECS students (roughly 10 to 15 EECS students).</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Rankings: US News & World Report ranks Berkeley higher than Caltech for both computer engineering and EE (#4 and #3 vs. #8 and #7). Among people I've talked to in the Bay, they say that I should go to Caltech (more prestigious).[/li][/ul]</p>
<p>Which school offers what you want to study in terms of classes and research and peers? CS means a lot of different things to a lot of different schools. Have you looked at what is available at each school?</p>
<p>OP, I would say for Graduate School, Berkeley and Caltech may be comparable in EECS because the students are primarily focused in research and interact mainly with the faculty advisor and group members. However, for UG education, I think there is no comparison. But you should be prepared to work twice as hard at caltech than at Berkeley, I think.</p>
<p>I’d say other parameters than the CS department strength should guide your decision now. </p>
<p>Besides their common academic strength, Caltech and Berkeley are very different school. Cal is extremely large, has lots of other students besides math and science students, has a strong athletic program, and has a very different history than Caltech.</p>
<p>Caltech is much smaller, exclusively has students who love math and science, and celebrates when its teams win A conference game. </p>
<p>I personally was facing the same choice last year and chose Caltech because I just fit in a lot better with the people here and love being surrounded by people who love math and science.</p>
<p>For graduate school, there are areas where one probably is better, and they’re terrific schools and it depends on research specialty. Beyond some vague guidelines, graduate school should be decided based on where you’re going to grow into a productive researcher in what you want (that could entail some non-academic factors too).</p>
<p>Berkeley engineering is very challenging, and there are classes that will be especially excruciating. Caltech requires a lot more of its students (everyone takes QM, etc), but schools like Berkeley, Stanford, etc for a field like engineering offer the topmost resources for their students. </p>
<p>But you’d be taking a lot more physics as well as more math theory at Caltech because of the core. If you don’t like that you should go to Berkeley.</p>
<p>One of the smartest guys in Silicon Valley went to Caltech. He was like the chief engineer at Facebook and is now starting his own software company for a website that will answer people’s questions (forget it’s name.) Obviously, it worked for him. </p>
<p>I don’t know anything specific about the CS curriculum at Caltech.</p>
<p>Check out whether Berkeley lhas a maximum number of undergraduate students in EE and whether class sizes have a maximum number. I have heard that Berkeley classes have a maximum number of students and each major has a maximum number so everyone doesn’t get into the classes they want or the major they want. They take studenst according to grades so you have to compete. It’s a funding issue that many public universities like Berkeley are faced with. At Caltech, you can sign up for any class and any major.</p>
<p>For Caltech, you could take placement exams to take a higher-level course. The only reason Caltech does not accept AP credits is because they think (and rightfully so) that no AP class (which simulates a college class of a mediocre school) can replace a Caltech class. Besides, you’ll still learn new things when taking introductory courses at a much more rigorous manner.</p>
<p>Congratulations on having two great options!
As some one who has hired engineers in industry, my two cents on Caltech vs Berkeley option is as follows:
If your goal is to go to grad school, Caltech would prepare you better for it with stronger theoretical foundation. You could achieve similar background by taking honors courses in sciences at Berkeley. However, most students at Cal are not required to do so.
If your goal is to get a job after BS, you will be prepared for it better at Berkeley. Berkeley offers more variety of courses and are not as theoretical in nature as at Caltech.
You can’t go wrong with either option. Best of luck with your decision.</p>
<p>Please go to Berkeley CS. I got waitlisted to Caltech, and I’m hoping to get accepted!</p>
<p>On a serious note, congratulations! If I usually have to make a decision between two great-sounding choices, I imagine seeing them being thrown off a cliff at the same time by an anonymous third-party, and I only have time to choose one of them. Maybe that might work for you!</p>
<p>You are right that AP classes don’t even touch Caltech classes in terms of rigor. My son made high A’s in AP classes without studying and by turning in rough drafts. Caltech is kicking his butt despite his working hard. He honestly doesn’t have the best work habits because he slid through the school’s toughest IB and AP classes so easily and early, and that is hurting him at Caltech. AP classes help prepare you for Caltech, but they don’t fully prepare you and cannot begin to replace Caltech classes. For example, my son got high A’s easily in AP English and perfect standardized test scores but had to take a slightly easier class at Caltech than average to get him to where he needed to be.</p>
<p>Increase your chances of getting into Caltech by showing additional interest without being obnoxious. Send admissions and update of your accomplishments and grades (unless they have slipped), tell them about your summer plans to solve unsolved problems, scan in the newspaper article about what diseases you’ve cured since you submitted your application, or send an additional recommendation letter. Be bubbly with enthusiasm, thankful for still having a chance, eager to join a specific house, delighted at the thought of participating in a SURF next summer, and so on.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice, AlwaysNAdventure! Sorry if I sounded a bit obnoxious, at the time I wrote that I was delirious over the waitlist (both elated that I had the opportunity to be waitlisted, and disappointed I wasn’t accepted). I apologize if I sound really full of myself - sometimes I come across that way, and you’re right that I’m probably once again being too eager about something I was really obsessive about. </p>
<p>You’re definitely right - although I haven’t cured a disease or worked out an unsolved problem, I’ll definitely focus on my strengths and see how things end up come July 1. I got accepted to other wonderful colleges as well, so I’ll be fine either way. Thanks again!</p>
<p>This is possibly the healthiest attitude you could have. I got rejected from Caltech for undergrad, and as a grad student here now, I can’t tell you how happy I am things turned out the way they did. :)</p>
<p>You didn’t sound obnoxious at all, matt36. Agree with RacinReaver re: your attitude. I’m sure things will work out for you wherever you decide to go!</p>