<p>S is gifted at science and math but also likes his free time, including singing in a capella groups. He is outgoing and makes friends easily. He got into Caltech (early action), Cornell, Amherst, Reed and William & Mary. (MIT turned him down.) I know this is a real mixed bag of schools but would love to hear views on pro and cons. Right now, he is leaning toward Caltech.</p>
<p>Cal Tech students have a notoriously difficult workload, so if he is looking for free time, that may not be the place. Besides the quantitiy of work given, the level of complexity if extremely high, and the grading is severe. Do a little research on Caltech to be sure your son wants that type of pressure-cooker atmosphere. </p>
<p>Cornell and Amherst might provide more varied experiences, and the chance for him to shine, instead of struggling to keep his head above water.</p>
<p>That’s a fascinating choice of schools – each quite different from the others.</p>
<p>The first question to consider, I think, is whether there are financial differences that are important to your family. In particular, would William and Mary offer substantial financial savings? I ask because, in my opinion, William and Mary is not quite as outstanding, academically, as the other four schools – although it’s certainly an excellent college.</p>
<p>If finances are not a concern, then a few questions worth considering might be:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Is he sure that he wants to study science/math? If not, perhaps one of the other schools would be a better choice than Caltech.</p></li>
<li><p>Could he be happy on a large campus? If not, Cornell should probably drop off the list. (However, if he could be comfortable on a large campus, I think Cornell would offer everything he wants, including an abundance of a capella groups.)</p></li>
<li><p>Does he prefer any of the five geographic locations over the others?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>He should check at each school the course catalogs and faculty research interests for the subjects he is considering majoring in. Some smaller schools may be limited in some science and math subjects, such that some subareas of interest may be poorly represented in course work and research opportunities.</p>
<p>No other schools applied or admitted to? Are there any significant net cost differences that influence the decision?</p>
<p>Has he visited Caltech? It’s got a very quirky vibe, but for a kids whose positive that they’ll end up in some sort of math or science its academics are stellar. Both my kids loved it, even the non-science kid. It’s very small, and I think fit is much more important there than other places. While courses are notoriously challenging my impression was that the atmosphere is one where kids study together and help each other out. As one student said, the last time he did a multiple choice test was the SAT (something that my Tufts kid can’t say.) They take the honor code seriously, and students describe many take home exams where they work for the allotted time and then draw a line to show where they ran out of time, but continue on to finish the exam anyway. They have some interesting traditions (painting bedrooms and halls), and are famous for pranks. While we were there a contigent was driving to the east coast to rescue the cannon that had been stolen by MIT. Caltech profs considered that a good enough reason to miss a few classes. All that said, my husband, who got his PhD there, thinks it’s better for grad school. I spent three years in Pasadena - and I just loved the location - easy driving to mountains, desert or the beach.</p>
<p>I don’t know the other schools well enough to offer comments, but obviously he’s got a bunch of great choices.</p>
<p>Looking at your post again, it bothers me a little that your son is “leaning toward” Caltech.</p>
<p>Caltech is an unusual school that offers a unique college experience. A person would either love this experience or hate it. </p>
<p>Reed also offers a unique experience, but it’s a very different one from that offered by Caltech. Again, I think a student would either love it or hate it.</p>
<p>Amherst and Cornell are more mainstream choices. Cornell is large and offers pretty much everything that a student could want. Amherst is small, but it’s part of a five-college consortium that offers pretty much everything a student could want. Neither of these schools appeals to only a narrow range of people. </p>
<p>Maybe a student who is less than certain that Caltech is the right experience for him might be better off at Amherst or Cornell.</p>
<p>Amherst is a top LAC, always jostling with Williams and Swarthmore to be Top 3 of the Liberal Arts Colleges as ranked by USNWR (ewwww, USNWR, who cares, right?)</p>
<p>There’s something to be said for being the best in one’s category…of anything. If his future is in science or math, wouldn’t it make sense that a strong academic performance at Amherst would give him at least serious consideration/look-see from every quality graduate school, just because it’s Amherst. (or Williams. or Swarthmore…). </p>
<p>S attended Amherst and the most important message they received there, with breakfast-lunch-dinner, was to go participate in activities and build community. Activities were considered as important as coursework, to professors who also encouraged and supported seeing their students in plays, concerts, sports, charitable events, and more each evening and weekend. </p>
<p>A decade ago there were 5 wonderful college-sponsored a capella groups on campus, and who knows how many informals. The college sponsored groups were given prime spots to perform at Freshman Orientation and Homecoming. They had rock star status among students. S was in one for his first two years, and they went off to record for a weekend, but he moved onto other areas of performance in music and theater. It was a lot of fun and attention. By now, I’m sure you could compare A Capella groups by Youtube if you really want to compare quality of sound, campus-to-campus. I was impressed with the spirit of support that the college administration gave to A Cappella, but that was echoed for so many other endeavors, from chamber music to fencing. The student’s co-curricular activities are dignified as being essential to their educations.</p>
<p>S’s close friend majored in physics and music. I enjoyed watching him sing in the Concert Choir (more formal than A Cappella, of course) and go on to graduate school in Physics, something about string theory which was new at that moment. He was a very kind, considerate person; a pleasure to befriend. I imagine he could enjoy lunch with the custodian as much as the college president. Just a typical Amherst kid. </p>
<p>If your son were to identify anything missing in the course catalogue of Amherst in maths or sciences, he’d simply cross-enroll at one of the other 4 colleges of the Consortium. My own S, who double majored in Theater and Music, decided he wanted a different slant on Shakespeare than was available at Amherst. Although excellent, he just wanted to hear from a different professor who approached the text more as a writer than historian. So he hightailed over to Smith College and took their Shakespeare course instead. </p>
<p>I’d imagine there would be similar parallels around the maths and sciences if he wants a different perspective for a course. </p>
<p>That’s why I am sure your S would thrive at Amherst. That said, he has some great choices here. Others could probably make a case for the intensely intellectual mood of Reed’s campus. I bow to others who are equipped to evaluate CalTech for its offering to a scientist/mathemetician, compared to the more mainstream Amherst or Cornell. </p>
<p>My claim here is that Amherst’s explicit encouragement of co-curricular activities sounds like a fit with someone who cares about how he spends his free time. Amherst actually believes in allowing for, and making optimal use of free time as part of one’s education. </p>
<p>Obviously he is fortunate to have some great choices here, but you are trying to find one. So I wrote about the one I know personally. </p>
<p>I also believe that where the fit is excellent, the student can flourish in academics. He has the luxury to go where he might feel “happy” (remember happy?) and therefore excel at coursework, too. That would be my hope for him if he were my child.</p>
<p>Regarding Amherst, a student who is interested in math want to carefully inspect the offerings there. <a href=“https://www.amherst.edu/course_scheduler[/url]”>https://www.amherst.edu/course_scheduler</a> indicates that, for academic year 2011-2012, only 7 “standard” junior and senior level math courses were offered (3 in fall and 4 in spring), although 15 “special topics” courses were offered (10 in fall, 5 in spring). A math student may want to carefully check that the interests of Amherst’s math faculty are what s/he is interested in, since such interests will influence what the “special topics” courses will be.</p>
<p>Wow! Congrats to you and your son. I just hear the name Caltech and think, “Whoa, that’s a brainiac.” Those MIT/Caltech folks are a special, special breed :)<br>
(Not just some old ‘athletic conference’ school) ;)</p>
<p>If he is not only gifted in math and science but also wants to be surrounded by equally gifted students and be taught by some of the smartest profs on the planet and looks forward to a very challenging, academically vibrant experience, then he should go to CalTech.
nuff said.
it wont be easy, but it will be worth it.
DS, who is in Grad school there, is soooooo happy to finally be surrounded by students who are as smart, if not smarter than himself and are as passionate about their education as he is!</p>
<p>one more reason to go to a U rather than a college- the opportunity to take graduate school courses as an undergraduate, and the easy access to research opportunities.</p>
<p>One aspect to picking the right college that I learned the hard way with my kids: DO NOT use ranking as any measure to determine best fit. In fact, I suggest you look at region of the country, rural/urban etc, size of campus (for diversity and ECs like singing groups), and ‘vibe’ (such as ‘quirky’, ‘serious’, sporty, diverse, LAC vs research uni) instead. Assume all are at the same prestige or ranking because college is what you make of it.</p>
<p>those schools are very different… if the son is leading toward Cal Tech, I don’t see why he would be interested in Cornell, Amherst, or W&M. I don’t know much about Reed.</p>
<p>frankly…he should go where he is leaning.
It is, after all, his decision.</p>
<p>Caltech is the obvious answer, the obvious outlier here. A special place, kids will work their tails off but, no different from MIT, still can have a mess of very real (if somewhat wonky) fun. </p>
<p>Would NOT recommend Amherst to a math/science kid of his probable abilities, just not their strength. Were we talking social sciences or humanities, a different story. Cornell is possibly the the only other school on the list that will offer up opportunities that would match his abilities. Very, very different setting, student body, overall atmosphere compared with Caltech, obviously. Sounds less his thing.</p>
<p>If he’s really hardcore into STEM and wants the best in those areas…this is what I’d recommend based on experiences of dozens of similarly situated older cousins/HS classmates…some of whom are Caltech graduates:</p>
<p>Caltech (Provided he can handle intense and sometimes extremely overwhelmingly complex workloads…though not impossible for all as one older cousin thrived there).</p>
<p>Cornell also has topflight STEM departments with a heavy rigorous workload…though no Cornellian I knew would claim it is as intense as Caltech. It is a larger school so that may be something to factor in. </p>
<p>Reed is an LAC with highly rigorous & heavy academic workload…including STEM fields and sends many graduates to topflight STEM Phd programs. Work hard/play hard atmosphere. As with the above two schools…it isn’t enough to just be smart there. </p>
<p>Amherst does have respectable STEM departments…but at my STEM-centered public magnet high school…the hardcore STEM kids who’d apply to the above 3 schools tended to avoid Amherst due to issues of limited STEM course selection, the perception its strengths are mainly in the humanities and social sciences, and the feeling it was “too preppy” and thus…goes against their tendency to prefer “more nerdy/geeky” leaning schools for social reasons. </p>
<p>W & M Don’t know. With the exception of a few aspiring pre-meds, vast majority of HS classmates who applied were humanities/social science oriented…especially those aspiring to be future lawyers.</p>
<p>Amherst provides a superb undergraduate education. However, its math offerings are thin and for a truly gifted math kid would run out of courses to take there. He/she would be able to take graduate courses at UMass Amherst, but neither the math students at UMass Amherst or Amherst College would be likely to be as strong as those at CalTech and maybe as Cornell.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, your son has visited all of these schools…? The answer is easy: He should go to the school he liked the most when he visited. If you can afford a second round of visits in April, that would be even better, but it’s definitely not necessary; just make sure that he has all the relevant information about graduation requirements, his intended major, faculty, etc. But really, as important as these factors are, personal fit is the criterion I would go by if I had to make a choice between these schools, which are all great in their own, very different ways.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus has made an important point here: Students who are interested in math and science often want undergraduate research opportunities, and the variety of such opportunities available at small colleges tends to be limited.</p>
<p>For that reason, I think that if your son decides that the very intense Caltech experience is not for him, Cornell might be the best alternative. </p>
<p>Cornell is huge, with a wide variety of science/math related departments in several of its undergraduate schools. The undergraduate research opportunities are almost unlimited. And he would not run out of interesting coursework. Qualified undergraduates can take graduate courses, and students in the College of Arts and Sciences (which is where I’m assuming he would be) can take courses in the other colleges at Cornell as well. </p>
<p>Cornell’s science and engineering programs are rigorous, and the workload is heavy, but it’s not as intense as Caltech. This could be an advantage for a student who wants to have time for extracurricular activities and a social life but still come out with a highly respected degree. </p>
<p>Cornell also offers the opportunity to meet a wide variety of people (half of them female!). Each of its seven undergraduate colleges attracts a different population. The students in the College of Engineering, the School of Hotel Administration, and the School of Industrial and Labor Relations are so different from one another that they might as well be members of different species. Yet they meet and become friends. My daughter, who majored in economics in the College of Arts and Sciences, had roommates from each of these three schools at some point during her years at Cornell.</p>
<p>Cornell also has an extensive fraternity and sorority system, which attracts a substantial proportion of the student body. Since your son is a social person, he might like that. On the other hand, if he chooses not to become involved in Greek life, he won’t feel left out. There are thousands of students at Cornell who are not in the Greek system and would not want to be. They usually live off-campus as upperclassmen with clusters of friends and do just fine.</p>
<p>One more point: Your son sounds like the sort of person who may have a Ph.D. in his future, and as I mentioned, he would have no trouble at Cornell finding the undergraduate research opportunities that students with such aspirations need. But if he decides instead to go straight into the workforce after graduation, he would also do well coming from Cornell. Despite its somewhat out-of-the-way location, Cornell has superb on-campus recruiting.</p>
<p>Reed actually has many research opportunities. As OP undoubtably knows, every student is required to write, defend & publish a senior thesis to graduate. Probably why Reed has such a strong showing in % of students who acquire a Ph.d. (behind Cal-tech however;))</p>
<p>[REED</a> COLLEGE PHD PRODUCTIVITY](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/ir/phd.html]REED”>Doctoral Degree Productivity - Institutional Research - Reed College)</p>
<p>I haven’t studied or worked at Caltech, so my view of it might be a bit off base, but I have the impression that it’s not really a good place for someone who is interested in extra-curricular activities–unless the student counts working in a research lab as an extra-curricular (which technically, it is). </p>
<p>Caltech is very intense. Sandra Tsing Loh gave the 2005 commencement speech ([[FoRK</a>] [archive] Sandra Tsing Loh’s Caltech commencement speech](<a href=“http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/Week-of-Mon-20050613/036623.html][FoRK”>http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/Week-of-Mon-20050613/036623.html)) and I think gives a concise picture of what it’s like. People with more experience of Caltech are welcome to contradict this. There is also some useful discussion in the Caltech forum about what makes Caltech different from other schools.</p>