Whether to switch out of engineering, and to what

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Son's best friend, who is like his brother, is really struggling with engineering, and his parents are likely to lay down the law and make him switch his major.</p>

<p>I am upset by this because I've watched this boy grow up, and I think he would be a wonderful engineer. </p>

<p>But, he's barely gotten Cs in his Calculus and Engineering Classes, is on academic probation for the honors college right now, and may be forced out of engineering through either academic or parental pressures.</p>

<p>He loves video games, and is a gifted musician, and although he is not my child and I have to stay out of this, I'd like to give him some advice on finding something that can maybe lead him to an engineer related job, that does not involve any more math. </p>

<p>I know many kids who are attending non engineering schools and majoring in physics, even though their ultimate goal is to be an engineer. My husband dropped out of electrical engineering, but got a computer science degree, under the engineering school at his university.</p>

<p>Money is not an object with this family, even though the child does have a scholarship, and he is an only child as well. Other than academics, the school has been a great fit for him. I don't think he would be happy to change to another school to major in engineering, and I don't think that would make much of a difference academically. I mean, engineering, wherever you study it, is going to be challenging, so transferring will not guarantee he'll succeed.</p>

<p>Child is in his fall semester of his sophomore year.</p>

<p>Wondering if any of you can offer any support, encouragement, advice and guidance.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>which engineering track is he in? electrical, mechanical, chemistry, computer?</p>

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<p>Just FYI, physics is at least as math-intensive as engineering, if not more so in many cases.</p>

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<p>It’s difficult to give advice to a struggling student if I don’t really know why he’s struggling. Is he finding the material too challenging? Was he not adequately prepared in his high school education? Is he having social or emotional problems? Depression is supposedly pretty common among new college students.</p>

<p>If he’s barely passing all of his courses, my suspicion is that he’s not putting enough time and effort into his studies. If that is the case, you should try to find out why he’s having trouble focusing on his studies. Lower division math and science requirements often focus on theory and proofs which can be dull for many engineers, most of whom are more interested in the application of math and science to solve real world problems.</p>

<p>If this student wants to eventually go on to do technical work in the industry, there are very few paths that can lead him there that doesn’t involve more math. Some schools offer IT and Software Engineering type majors that differ from traditional computer science programs in that they are designed to produce working software engineers and IT professionals rather than graduate school ready computer scientists. For example, UC Irvine – one of the few universities in the country that have a separate, independent Computer Science school – offers bachelor’s degrees in majors like “Informatics”, and “Business Information Management” which I assume to have far less stringent math and science requirements. Perhaps this student’s school offers some similar programs.</p>

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<p>Sorry for lack of information. I’ll do my best, but this is not my son, but his best friend, but I’ve known this young man for close to 15 years.</p>

<p>The major is mechanical engineering. My husband was electrical engineering, which is tough as well, so I don’t think a switch to electrical engineering is a good move.</p>

<p>My son was in the honors track at their high school, whereas his friend was in a track just below. However, my son’s math was very lacking, and we had low confidence that he’d be able to handle calculus and engineering, but he’s done well so far.</p>

<p>I’ve heard different views that Calc 2 and 3 are two different animals, and that one’s performance in Calc 2 doesn’t reflect how one will do in Calc 3. That being said, our friend barely passed Calc 2, and thought he’d need to repeat it. But, he got the lowest passing grade, a C-, and took the grade and moved on to Calc 3. Many assured him that he would be okay in Calc 3, but I’m wondering if maybe he should have repeated Calc 2.</p>

<p>The boys’ college does have a management and information systems major, which I believe is under the business school, so that may be an option for him.</p>

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<p>Bookmarked</p>

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<p>Generally, schools do not like students repeating courses that they got grades of C- or higher in, since C- theoretically indicates having learned it well enough to go on to the next course.</p>

<p>MIS under business schools tends to be a not very technical major (though business majors in general tend to take lightweight calculus and statistics for business majors). Unfortunately, the relatively weak technical knowledge among MIS people often shows in not being able to handle unusual problems or new technologies in the computer systems that they are administering for companies and other organizations. Someone looking at an MIS career may want to take the CS courses in operating systems, networks, databases, and security for a stronger technical background.</p>

<p>Assuming University of Alabama, the MIS curriculum is here:</p>

<p><a href=“Home - The Culverhouse College of Business”>Home - The Culverhouse College of Business;

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Uh, yeah. This kid doesn’t sound like he’s mature enough to be in college anyways.</p>

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<p>IMO, it’s pointless to try to predict how he’ll do in Calc 3 if you don’t really know why he did so poorly in Calc 2. Still, if he really wants to do engineering, it’s too soon for him to quit. I’m glad he’s giving it at least another semester (or quarter). Perhaps he’ll be able to bounce back from his freshman year and start doing well in his studies.</p>

<p>However, I want to add that there are engineering related fields that may not involve “technical work” but are still vital, nonetheless. I have several friends who have some technical background but work primarily in program management or customer interaction. At many companies, program managers don’t need to have technical backgrounds at all – in fact, I’ve found that I sort of prefer program managers with non-technical background for a variety of reasons (e.g. they resist the urge to micro-manage, they are less myopic and retain a good 10 thousand food view of the project, etc.) Perhaps your son’s friend may find a better fit in that kind of field.</p>

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<p>How gifted a musician is he? What is his practice ethic? Has he entered any music competitions? Which instruments does he play? Does he perform regularly? Is he getting paid to perform?</p>

<p>It’s possible that he should pursue a career in music, and do something that is related to engineering on the side that is not quite as rigorous. Working as a recording engineer comes to mind. Also, possibly getting involved in the design of musical instruments. As the material may be presented in a form that’s easier for him to latch onto (e.g. mathematics used to express how musical sounds are produced), it may provide the gateway for him to pursue more formal engineering (if he wants to).</p>

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<p>** @Medwell **
Yeah Medwell, if a student is under pressure by his parents, who pay for his college education, to switch his Major then he is not mature.</p>

<p><em>Rolls eyes</em></p>

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<p>^ Hey, that’s exactly what I said! Glad you agree.</p>

<p>On a less sarcastic note, yes. Somebody going to university should have a 100% decision in what they study. Anything less represents immaturity, a dependence on parental decision-making that shouldn’t exist in a college-aged student. I would literally laugh in my parents’ face if they told me to change my major. (However, they would never do something like that, as they respect my status as a mature adult.)</p>

<p>The fact that this kid relies on his parents’ money to pay for school (and the fact that they’re able to use this as leverage on him) only proves my point further. This kid needs to grow up.</p>

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<p>Engineering to business is a pretty common move to facilitate graduating. Moving to science/technical/engineering/math majors because you assume they’ll be easier is probably not a great idea, in general.</p>

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<p>Yeah, it’s so easy for kids to get their own money to pay expensive college tuition and all the other things you have to pay for.</p>

<p>It’s not like College keeps getting more and more expensive or anything.</p>

<p>Get over yourself.</p>

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<p>This is silly, or bitter. The vast majority of students are assisted financially with college and has nothing whatsoever to do with maturity. We saved decades for our kids’ education as that is part of raising children: we value them getting the best education they can get. For us, it’s far preferable to having them assume debt or work in low paying jobs to save up for an education and life improvement. We recognize not everyone has that luxury (my spouse and I did not for example), but however your education is financed has nothing to do with maturity. </p>

<p>Yes indeed I see mature and immature students all the time in my classes, but I’ve never seen any correlation with family finances.</p>

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<p>Montegut, I tried to send you a PM but your box is too full :(</p>

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<p>Most friends I had back in college from the Mechanical Engineering department transfered to the Industrial Engineering department when they could not handle the ME program. Industrial Engineering will be somehow easier on him than mechanical engineering. </p>

<p>FYI - Why people have the misconception that Natural Sciences are a step down from Engineering? People need to understand that the reason entry into Natural Science program is easier than Engineering is not because is an easier program. The reason is demand, kids want a degree that pays more right out of college and engineering is the shortcut to that, so the more people want engineering the higher the required score is so they can weed out and get the best. Natural Sciences (I.e Physics, Chemistry are way harder than any engineering degree) but not everyone wants to go there, the reason as why is easier to get in.</p>

<p>So if he is struggling in ME he will get murder in a program like Physics where the math is 5 times more intensive and complicated that in ME.</p>

<p>My recomendation is to transfer to Industrial Engineerin, I doubt the college will even let him with those grades. Or keep fighting and finish the program. Take less courses per semester and some easy electives. He can fight his way through ME if he just take it slower, you dont have to graduate in 4-5 years. It might take him 6-7 but he will make it. Of course if that’s what he really wants to do.</p>

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<p>Oddly, biology seems to be the anomaly here. It is often an immensely popular major despite its poor job and career prospects, and many schools do not cap its enrollment. Meanwhile, physics is so unpopular that some Texas public universities may eliminate the physics major.</p>

<p>Agree that majoring in physics is a bad idea for someone struggling with mechanical engineering.</p>

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<p>Yes Biology is very popular because is the base for Medicine, anyone who wanna be a doctor either go to pre-med, pre-whatever or Biology. Biology is a complete different world than Physics or Chemistry. Is a lot of short term memorization and almost no math at all.</p>

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<p>You bring up a good point, MSORSA. Popularity has nothing to do with either the quality or rigor of education. Just because engineering programs are harder to get into doesn’t necessary mean that it’s a more rigorous program. But it goes beyond just majors. Some schools (especially small, well-known private schools) are ranked really high because they receive and reject a ton of applicants, thereby increasing its exclusivity. Exclusivity says almost nothing about the quality of the education the students receive, yet it’s a major factor in many college ranking systems.</p>