Whether to transfer, and if so, when... (State School to Cornell)

<p>Hello all. I've been an occasional reader of these threads for quite a while, and it has finally come to pass that I register and post my own thread. I have a dilemma I was hoping you all could help solve with me:</p>

<p>I am currently at a state university (a tier one according to US News, although I don't put much faith in those rankings) as a freshman and I am thinking about transferring to Cornell's College of Human Ecology. I am currently a Philosophy and Political Science double major at my school, and I would be transferring into the Policy and Analysis Management program at Cornell (of which I was told by admissions I am "eligible" i.e. I'd get in). I currently receive scholarships form my state school that total more than half of the total cost of attendance. I am heavily involved in extracurriculars and leadership positions at my state school relating to my area of interest, even though this is my first year, and I will continue to advance if I stay. My plans for the future include (tentatively) doing Teach for America for two years after undergrad, or some other type of work related to my field of interest, and then proceeding to law school. I wish to apply to national scholarships as well. I would very much like to attend either Harvard or Yale law school, or perhaps graduate school. I am interested in public policy and law, and am unsure exactly what I want to do in terms of career. I would like to enter the Army JAG Reserves after law school, however, and this is a definite. </p>

<p>My questions are: In terms of getting into law school, applying to national academic scholarships, and then career perspectives, would I be better off staying at my current state school, or transferring? And if I should transfer, should I stay an additional year and transfer as a Junior? </p>

<p>In addition, any posts regarding availability of activities and curriculum regarding my areas of interests would be most welcome. </p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

<p>We're in similar situations - I'm an NYU freshman applying to HumanEc for PAM, and I'm also planning on Law School. At NYU, my major is Econ, with a Pol Sci minor, but I feel like PAM fits my interests better. I'm also interested in public policy/law. My plans for the future aren't so well thought out like yours, though. </p>

<p>You can still get into a top law school from a state school. If you apply to Cornell, I think it should be for stronger reasons than law school applications, because you have a better chance of getting a high GPA in your state school than Cornell, which is very competitive (I'm not saying you wouldn't do well in Cornell of course, I'm just saying it's more competitive than most state schools), and I'm sure you know the top law schools demand very high GPA's, although the LSAT plays a huge role. </p>

<p>That said, Cornell is highly regarded and a GPA of 3.7 at Cornell might be considered just as good as a 4.0 from state school - I don't know. Graduating from Cornell might give you an edge over other applicants, plus you'll benefit from all the resources of Cornell in your undergrad years. </p>

<p>If you apply for Fall '09 (soph transfer) they will look mostly at HS, because they'll only have 1 semester of college to go by, whereas if you wait another year for Junior transfer, they'll look at college stuff mostly...so if your HS grades aren't good, it might be better to wait. Good luck.</p>

<p>Thank you very much for the advice. I didn't apply as a high school applicant to Cornell, mainly because I wasn't sure which college I wanted to apply to. </p>

<p>I'm definitely not applying to Cornell simply because of the "name brand". Honestly, I don't really care about the name. I think, like you, that PAM fits my interests better. Now whether the subject fits my interests, or the courses in the subject fits my interests, is another question. I'll be taking microecon this semester... </p>

<p>Thank you very much for your response, though. Just more to think about on my end :)</p>

<p>I think a lot of the answers to your questions depend on how comfortable you feel with your current school. Being competitive for national scholarships hinges a lot on how well you have developed relationships with faculty. If you feel that there are avenues for faculty interaction at your current school, that is one thing, but if you get the sense that the faculty don't really care about undergraduates, then I would definitely recommend Cornell. </p>

<p>At Cornell, I would say that most students definitely receive the faculty interaction that they desire provided that they seek it out. Career services will probably be a bit better in terms of preparation for things like the Marshall or Fulbright Scholarships.</p>

<p>The other benefit to attending a school like Cornell comes if you aren't completely certain what type of career you want to follow. The diversity of students and interests at Cornell is pretty impressive, and you may find you have a broader ability to explore different options in terms internships, etc. </p>

<p>Out of curiosity, are you currently in ROTC? Do you plan on doing ROTC at Cornell? If so, you should contact Cornell's ROTC office. If not, then financial aid should definitely enter into your decision.</p>

<p>The other thing I would recommend is also seriously considering the ILR program. For somebody interested in philosophy and political science, ILR might be a better fit than PAM, simply because the upper level courses that ILR offers in political economy and political philosophy are quite good. Check out some of these courses if you are interested:</p>

<p>Courses</a> of Study 2008-2009: School of Industrial and Labor Relations
Courses</a> of Study 2008-2009: School of Industrial and Labor Relations
Courses</a> of Study 2008-2009: School of Industrial and Labor Relations</p>

<p>[Courses</a> of Study 2008-2009: School of Industrial and Labor Relations](<a href="http://www.cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/CoSdetail.php?college=ILR&number=3440&prefix=ILRLE&title=Development+of+Economic+Thought+and+Institutions+(also+ECON+3440%5DCourses"&gt;http://www.cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/CoSdetail.php?college=ILR&number=3440&prefix=ILRLE&title=Development+of+Economic+Thought+and+Institutions+(also+ECON+3440))
[Courses</a> of Study 2008-2009: School of Industrial and Labor Relations](<a href="http://www.cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/CoSdetail.php?college=ILR&number=4480&prefix=ILRLE&title=Topics+in+20th-Century+Economic+History%3A+The+Economics+of+Depression+and+the+Rise+of+the+Managed+Economy+(also+ECON+4580%5DCourses"&gt;http://www.cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/CoSdetail.php?college=ILR&number=4480&prefix=ILRLE&title=Topics+in+20th-Century+Economic+History%3A+The+Economics+of+Depression+and+the+Rise+of+the+Managed+Economy+(also+ECON+4580))
[Courses</a> of Study 2008-2009: School of Industrial and Labor Relations](<a href="http://www.cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/CoSdetail.php?college=ILR&number=4440&prefix=ILRLE&title=The+Evolution+of+Social+Policy+in+Britain+and+America+(also+ECON+4440%5DCourses"&gt;http://www.cuinfo.cornell.edu/Academic/Courses/CoSdetail.php?college=ILR&number=4440&prefix=ILRLE&title=The+Evolution+of+Social+Policy+in+Britain+and+America+(also+ECON+4440))&lt;/p>

<p>I'm not currently in ROTC simply because I wouldn't have the time now with other things I want to do. Plus, the idea of PT does not sounds good during the academic year :) </p>

<p>I know this isn't the purpose of this thread, but you mind comparing ILR and PAM? I was looking at both for a while, actually, which was part of the reason I didn't apply as a freshman to Cornell.</p>

<p>as far as law school goes, i dont think the fact that you went to cornell will give you an upper hand at all vs. someone who graduated from your current school...</p>

<p>i dont have first hand experience at law school admissions but i keep getting told that what matters is your GPA and LSAT...</p>

<p>if you have a very high GPA right now that might be a reason to stay at your current school...</p>

<p>Well, I should qualify my thoughts on ILR vs. PAM by saying that PAM is a relatively new program. It began around the same time I entered Cornell, so it has obviously advanced a lot in the last nine years, both in terms of student quality and the academic experience.</p>

<p>That said, my general perception of the two programs is that while you can have a PAM style education in ILR, you cannot have an ILR style education in PAM. The strength of the PAM program is that it provides you with an analytical toolkit to approach thinking about the social sciences. The strength of the ILR program is that you are provided with a strong analytical toolkit to approach thinking about the social sciences within the lens of political economy and the employer-government-employee relationship.</p>

<p>So that's the critical distinction. Whereas in PAM you need to take intro to sociology and intro to psychology, in ILR you need to take intro to organizational behavior, which is basically applied psychology and sociology within the context of industrial relations. Whereas in ILR you need to take labor economics and labor market policy courses, in PAM you need to take more general policy courses.</p>

<p>The other benefit to ILR, in my mind, is that the upper level courses span different disciplines -- including statistics, economics, history, sociology, business, and even some law/philosophy. In PAM, nearly all of the upper level courses are basically applied economics courses.</p>

<p>In both programs, a significant number of students are simply in the classes just because they think that the major provides them with a decent entryway into an employable career. They are probably right. </p>

<p>In both programs a serious student of public policy would need to take further courses in statistics, math, and topical content, which can include foreign language study. Maybe only 10 to 15 percent of students actually pursue such a route.</p>

<p>I actually have a lot of strong thoughts on the social sciences and pre-business tracks at Cornell, and how they need to be reorganized from a departmental standpoint. But that's not neither here nor there, and both programs are strong and stand on their own merits.</p>

<p>Cayuga thanks so much for that summary, although I applied ED to ILR my friend is on the fence as to whether he should apply to PAM or ILR. I'm going to show this too him.</p>

<p>cheers,
Mike</p>

<p>I debated between CAS Econ, CALS AEM, HumEc PAM and ILR forever (So many great choices!)...then I narrowed it down to PAM and ILR, and was on the fence with that for a while. What finally made me decide is when I looked at the coursework for each major (available online). I saw that PAM is more Economics-intensive, which is what fits my interests more. If you're more into Govt/PolSci than Econ, ILR might actually be a better choice. I suggest you take a look at the courses for each major. </p>

<p>Also, ILR's transfer acceptance rate is almost 60%! that is REALLY high. HumEc's is 35%...just in case you were wondering.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, ILR's transfer acceptance rate is almost 60%! that is REALLY high. HumEc's is 35%...just in case you were wondering.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's mostly due to GTs, which ILR takes more of.</p>

<p>Thanks Cayuga. I've looked at the different courses, and I think PAM would be more suited for me, mostly because it concentrates on public policy vs. collective bargaining and such. I assume I can take classes in both schools too (or any school for that matter). </p>

<p>But the question still is: do I transfer, and if so when..</p>

<p>I wish Cornell would publish GT numbers separate from external transfer numbers. I have been told it is typically half the 60%, maybe a very slight amount higher (it varies a little bit every year of course though). I would not be very stressed right now if the acceptance percentage was 60%.</p>

<p>I am in the same situation as you hermanns, I had my interview with Mary Van Arsdale the director of admissions at ILR and she told me that the acceptance outside of GTs is alittle over 30%. She also explained admissions are very holistic so if you have a lot of real good ECs it will help.</p>