so, are you suggesting Stevens is not worth the investment in his future? Did you have an experience similar to ours?
$80K in school loans for 10 years at 7% would be roughly $1550 a month loan payment.
Let’s say he makes $70K out of college, less 30% for taxes and benefits (which might be low). So $49k net, $4080/ month to live on. Take out the loan payment and he’s down to living on $2500/month. Can he do that? What would rents look like in areas he might live in? Would he have a car payment? Bottom line - is this amount of debt manageable?
Also, I’d like to see some data that shows Stevens has significantly higher salaries to roughly estimate an ROI.
@Frank L At that price, Stevens better have a great co-op, internship, and placement assistance. Or else they’d be Trump University.
Will the debt limit his ability to also enjoy college life? How about life after college?
Will the debt force him to pursue the highest offer rather than the job that interests him most? (One of nature’s practical jokes is that hiring managers tend to screen out the former unless it’s a short-term hire.) The key to a successful career long term is marketability - will that highest paying entry-level job make him more marketable or less? What would he learn there that he can parlay elsewhere, if need be?
I like @JustGraduate 's reasoning. But I’d figure $50K right out of college instead of $70K, just for the odds and bulk of of opportunities.
Where would he get employed at Stevens that he would be shut out of as a Rowan grad? (I dunno of any). Would he be offered a higher starting salary as a Stevens grad than he would as a Rowan grad (No. Employers don’t care about your financial commitments, at least I don’t.)
With limited placement assistance, how are all these Rowan grads getting jobs? Going to the engineering job boards, getting steered by professors, or most of all, talking amongst themselves. My son interviewed with a company senior year, was interested about it but thought it would be perfect for his buddy. Coincidentally, his buddy had the same feeling about his interview and mentioned it to my son. They swapped, and both were happy.
I say creating your own network is worth more than a bureaucrat making a phone call.
@Chardo: I’m glad for you and your son, and I hear what you’re saying. I work under the 95/5 rule: What happens 95% of the time vs. the 5%. With entry-level jobs, the kids are more likely to start in the region they went to school or where they were brought up - provided there are opportunities. Large multi-nationals/government contractors are often an exception with engineers; they want to see how transient the newbies are.
Some posters in the past have promoted Stevens on this aspect, because its graduates’ average pay levels actually were higher than those of most other schools. However, Stevens graduates mostly engineering and CS majors (and small numbers of business, biology, and other majors), so its high average pay levels of graduates reflects the majors chosen.
What it means is: do not compare entire school results of post-graduation outcomes. Compare by major. (Unfortunately, many schools do not make post-graduation outcome survey results by major available.)
@Frank L
I just went through the same decision making process with my parents regarding Rowan vs other engineering schools. In my opinion, shared with my parents, Rowan is doing amazing things with its engineering program. Rowan’s quality program combined with cost gave it the clear edge over Stevens. Your decision should be a no brainer. Sure, Stevens has a nice campus and good co op and intern outreach, but unless you have money to burn, why incur so much debt??? Even if you strip away cost from the equation, when you compare apples to apples, especially considering the new facilities, Rowan makes a compelling argument and don’t be surprised if in the next few years Rowan’s engineering programs are considered more sought after than Stevens, Rutgers and yes I’ll say it on par with Princetons. I’m sure I’ll attract criticism for saying that, but ALREADY Rowan engineering is highly ranked. The crowds at the campus tours apparently were the biggest ever for the program and it’s already more selective than TCNJ and Rutgers
Ive been on the fence. However, at this point I think Rowan is the smart choice for the reasons discussed here. One thing that I dont want to do is tell him where to go. Hopefully, he will come to that conclusion himself. I think I will leave my laptop open so he can read this blog. My last post will be his chosen school. Thanks for the input, this is a great site.
Stevens has 140 years as a research university over Rowan, which is a relative newcomer in engineering. Stevens comes in as number 1 in New Jersey and twelfth in the US on Bloomberg Business Week/Payscale’s survey “What’s Your College Degree Worth, 2017” of starting salaries of graduates and return on investment of tuition. Stevens graduates are far more highly recruited than those of Rowan because the curriculum has far more breadth and depth than practically any other engineering school. This level of rigor makes graduates far more effective problem solvers than the vast majority of engineering graduates, and that is well known in industry, government, and academia. Stevens’ co-op and internship program- rated as fifth in the US- has placed many students into major corporations and financial institutions, many of the students receiving full time offers from them after graduation. Stevens also has one of the highest percentages of graduates who apply to medical school receiving admission of all US universities. Stevens is the most selective university in New Jersey (37% accepted last year) with the exception of Princeton. Rowan is not going be more desirable than Stevens, believe me. Taking out loans to attend Stevens is a great investment. If given the choice between Stevens and any of the NJ public colleges this is a no-brainer decision.
Compare the curriculums. With the opening of the new state of the art facility and freshman dorms, Rowan is the best cost/value option in engineering in the state now, hands down at less than half the price of Stevens. There are arguably pros and cons to attending either Rowan or Stevens but it’s indisputable that debt will weigh you down longer if you go to Stevens not to mention more likely you don’t graduate in four years. I had the same questions in considering my decision to commit to Rowan and was won over. I wouldn’t be going there if I felt it was some second rate program, it’s legit and then some. Your argument would hold greater weight if cost wasn’t such a huge factor
There are no pros of Rowan over Stevens save for cost. Stevens has a 145 year history of producing leaders in virtually every technological regime. Rowan has a long, long, long way to go to match that track record. There is no comparison of the outcomes of any of the NJ public colleges and Stevens, believe me. With respect to graduation rates, more than half of Stevens students are in the co-op program, which is five years BY DESIGN. They spend a total of one year off campus during the course of five years working in major corporations, government agencies, or financial institutions. Comparing the graduation rates of schools that have few co-op students with those that have many is an apples to oranges comparison, as the students enter the co-op program with the knowledge that it is a 5 year program. If I am an employer, I am likely going to look at the graduate with the year of co-op experience who took 5 years to graduate more favorably than the 4 year graduate with no experience. When I was in school co-ops and internshios were the exception but now they are the norm and in this respect Stevens truly has few peers. My company last year had two Stevens co-ops, one from TCNJ, and another from NJIT. Stevens co-op students pay tuition for just four years, by the way. Stevens’ job placement record is consistently among the best in the nation. How good is Rowan’s co-op program? All engineering schools including Rowan will get you a job, but the level and quality of the new graduate placements of Stevens graduates is far superior. The quality of your first assignment will very often determine the quality of your career. When I graduated from high school I could have attended Rutgers at virtually no cost having been the recipient of a Garden State Scholarship. I chose Stevens instead (like you, my parents too balked at the tuition), but in retrospect I had opportnities I would not have had had I chosen the former. I would encourage you to check out Payscale’s survey as well as Stevens’ own placement report. In my opinion by the way Rutgers has the best engineering program of the NJ public colleges.
Stevens does well in Payscale because most of its graduates are engineering or CS majors, unlike many other schools.
Respectfully, your points are well taken. However, without even factoring in increases in future years the total cost of attending Stevens over 4 years is now over 271k. The cost of Rowan a little over 130k. It’s cheaper to get a bachelors and masters at Rowan than an undergrad degree at Stevens. If you can pay Stevens full freight go for it. Not a prudent decision in my mind.
“save for cost” Cost is a major factor for most people, save for the truly wealthy.
It does well in Payscale because of the calibre of the curriculum, students, and faculty. Incidentally, Stevens in the last two decades has diversified considerably. The Music Technology, and Visual Arts graduates (programs inaugurated only 15 years ago) start at salaries conparable to the engineers and those graduates enjoyed a 100% placement rate (that is especially telling since traditional music and art schools have low placement success). Stevens today is 60% engineering, as compared to 87% three decades ago. The quantititative finance/technology business graduates had average starting salaries in excess of $72k last year with quite a few six figure starts as well. Before you make the claim that Stevens students do well simply because most are in science and engineering, consider Payscale’s survey of only engineering graduates, thus producing a true apples to apples comparison of engineering removing all other majors from the equation. In that survey, Stevens comes in at fifth in the US of all engineering schools. That directly reflects the quality of Stevens engineers and the esteem in which the marketplace holds them.
Will C, respectfully, all you are looking at is cost. The value of the degree far outweighs the cost.
And many Stevens graduates may end up in the NY Metro area, a high cost of living area, which may influence pay. It is great that you had a good experience at Stevens but there are many other schools out there that produce successful engineers. You will never know how your career would have gone had you gone to Rutgers (or Rowan).
Almost nobody pays full freight at Stevens. If you have the high school grades and SAT/ACT scores of the level that would make you a candidate for Stevens the university typically is quite generous with non- loan financial aid. I believe some 93% of students receive some form of financial aid. Of course cost is a major factor in attending a school. Nobody will claim otherwise but in this case its value far outweighs the cost. The proven success rate of Stevens graduates which is arguably in the top dozen or so in the US makes the tuition a low risk investment. Incidentally, when I was in school Rowan didn’t exist, it was Glassboro State College, which had no engineering program. It was renamed as a “university” along with many other NJ public and private colleges.
No not just cost. A number of factors including
-Whether Rowan engineering is accredited
-It offers one of the few combined electrical/computer engineering degrees in the US
-96% placement rate AT TIME of graduation (70% employed, 30% on to grad school
-compared its curriculum with other schools including Stevens (all the same core courses)
-clinics every semester
-brand new state of art facilities
-ranked 22 in country by US news for engineering where no doctorate offered
-brand new freshman dorms and newer upper- classman housing
-small class size
-no assistants teaching courses
-dramatic new improvements to the campus in addition to the new engineering building
-can walk to every class in minutes with no wasted time waiting for buses
-masters programs
-high 4 year graduation rate for engineering
Even without scholarship money I would have chosen it over TCNJ and Rutgers. Stevens is nice, but not worth the debt.
I can’t help but smile. That list sounds like Rowan’s marketing collateral. Firstly, Rowan’s engineering program was first ABET accredited just a few years ago I believe (by way of note, Stevens- and Columbia- were the first schools in the US to be accredited by ABET’s predecessor, the Engineer’s Council for Professional Development, in 1936 and was the first school in the US to be accredited in computer science when ABET instituted CS accreditation). All reputable engineering schools are ABET accredited, so saying that Rowan being accredited is a unique figure of merit is silly- ABET accreditation is a mandatory requirement in all schools for your degree to be considered valid. Computer engineering is intimately connected with electrical engineering at all schools. ABET accreditation requirements specify the same core EE courses for both EE and Comp.E. programs so claiming Rowan (or any other accredited school) is unique in this respect is silly. I studied both electrical and computer engineering for example. A “ranking” of 22 of “non-doctorate”’ engineering schools is disingenuous at best. The majority of engineering schools that do not offer doctorates is a very small number, so 22 in a group of 40-50 isn’t really saying much. The fact that no doctorate is offered means also means that little or no high level research is done, and being an undergrad without the opportunity to participate in significant research with the faculty and doctoral students is a significant disadvantage. The only non-doctorate engineering schools in the US I can think of that provide a true high level research experience are probably Harvey Mudd and Cooper Union. Engineering isn’t just about teaching, it’s also about advancing the knowledge in the field. Attending a true research university with long established doctoral programs such as Stevens (or Rutgers for that matter) makes for a superior analytical and problem solving capabilities of the graduates. All engineering schools must provide the same core subject matter and courses to maintain ABET accreditation. Stevens requires 145 credits for the undergraduate engineering curriculum, and if you read the detailed course descriptions- not just the course titles (which don’t vary much between schools), you will find that Stevens requires many courses outside the specific engineering discipline along with a broader core. Design courses are required in every semester. That breadth and depth, again, makes the graduates that much superior in interdisciplinary problem solving than those of other schools. That is why Stevens graduates are the twelfth highest paid in tbe nation. Last year, 97% of Stevens graduates were employed at graduation with the majority receiving two or more offers, but the quality of the employers is significantly greater than in any of the public colleges. How many Rowan graduates got hired by major Wall St. investment banks last year for example? How many got graduate school offers from Ivy League schools? Twice a year, Stevens holds on campus recruiting in which 300 or more companies participate with all of the major technological corporations represented. Employers clamor to hire Stevens graduates and they come to the students not the other way around! They don’t have to “pound the pavement” as a result of Stevens’ reputation in industry and the fact that the placement office does an outstanding job. This is in addition to the connections Stevens has via the highly successful co-op and internship programs. With respect to “state of the art facilities” Stevens has renovated and updated virtually every teaching and research lab - over $100 million in the last three years. The Department of Defense established three National Research Centers of Excellence totalling over $60 million, and the university currently is in progress of a $150 million campaign in which over $100 million has been realized. There was just recently a donation of an alumnus of $20 million for a new building and 14 new biotechnology and biomedical engineering labs, among other major “state of the art” improvements. Quoting things like walk to buildings is meaningless. Stevens too is of a physical size that any campus location is within a short walk. The student to faculty ratio at Stevens by the way is 10:1, I doubt Rowan is better than that. I wish you the best at Rowan. For a new a school without the track record of an established research university such as Stevens I’m sure Rowan does an adequate job as do all ABET accredited engineering schools. I believe however for all these reasons the opportunities at Stevens are far more.
Stevens is not an “Ivy” (you stated you would do anything for an Ivy), but it is a far better
choice than others, if you can ignore cost. My kid got a $20k/yr merit award from stevens,
so at $45k net it was somewhat competitive, depending on your state.
We live in NY, so Stony Brook would cost us just over 20k.
In the end we turned down both, but both were great choices with very different
lifestyles.
I dont think much of Bing Engineering, and Rowan is not in the same league
as any of the others you consider. Unless you get a full ride there, not clear why it is
being considered.
Here are Stevens’ career survey results for pay of graduates by major:
https://www.stevens.edu/directory/stevens-career-center/recruiting-stevens-students/salary-information
Here are the results of some state schools which have career survey results by major:
https://career.sa.ua.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/EG-Summary-Report-May-2016.Bachelors.pdf
http://www.sjsu.edu/careercenter/docs/Salary%20Survey%20Report%202014-15.pdf
https://db.career.vt.edu/scripts/PostGrad2006/Report/DetailReportSalaries.asp?College=00&Majors=Y&Cohort=2015-2016
https://careers.calpoly.edu/search.php
https://webapps.gatech.edu/cfcampus/adors/commencement/salary_report_result.cfm?termcode=201602&college=TOTAL&level=1&surveyid=105&Submit=Submit
https://career.berkeley.edu/Survey/2016Majors
It does not look like Stevens graduates are particularly highly paid compared to graduates of various state schools in the same majors.