Which colleges for engineering

Here is a question for you: What do you know about the NON-math and science aspects of liberal arts colleges such as Colgate and Hamilton? Remember that you are not majoring in engineering at either one, should you attend, and what the goals of liberal arts colleges are: NOT to graduate math and science people.

Do you know that Colgate has a core curriculum meant to expose all students to the Humanities, Natural Sciences and Social Sciences - in addition to whatever they might major in?

I hope you have evaluated what these schools offer in depth and what is expected of students.

Good luck with your college search!

I really can’t think of any reason that UR would be generally stronger in math and natural and physical sciences than Hamilton or Colgate (e.g., Hamilton students can code: .https://cs.hamilton.edu/ccscne/). An exception might be in math if your studies have already advanced you beyond the study of multi-variable calculus and linear algebra. In this case, you might ultimately benefit from the graduate level math courses (at UR) that would allow you to continue your progression in mathematics as an undergraduate student. Other exceptions might be found in esoteric fields such as optics, in which UR may lead the field, but this can be countered, depending on your interests, by programs at your other options such as geoarchaeology (Hamilton) and astrogeophysics (Colgate).

The above said, in order for you to fully benefit from your education at any of your choices, you should be eager to explore subjects ranging across multiple disciplines such as classics, philosophy, religious studies, government, literature and history.

I’m a current student at RPI, and would say that it wouldn’t hurt to do a 3-2 program, if you have to. I’d say URochester is much better though in terms of STEM offerings than Hamilton or Colgate. There are many more transfer offerings than Darthmouth or Columbia at any school, especially Hamilton, which also has an agreement with RPI. One of my friends actually participated in this program and transferred. Would say though that under this route you’ll need over a 3.0 with hopefully a B or higher in all your science and/or math courses. The transition could, potentially, be brutal though since with the greatest respect to Hamilton or Colgate’s science and math programs, they aren’t as rigorous as at a traditional engineering school. For example, looking up Hamilton’s Calculus II curriculum, you’ll finish the entire thing halfway through Calc II at RPI. At that point, you then start going over the basic of Multivariable Calculus and then when you hit Multivar you go straight into application. Summed up, would echo that math will be harder, especially in upper level courses at another school than Hamilton. It’s even harder at Columbia. Darthmouth is less rigorous and lower ranked for engineering, but I can’t imagine it would be easy.

I did a quick search of Hamilton’s computer science curriculum and was actually decently impressed, considering they have a very similar structure to their program and curriculum as many top-tier computer science programs. I’m can’t attest to the rigor since learning about queues and trees, for example, can be extremely easy or extremely complex, but it seems like you’d get the fundamental knowledge in that regard.

The biggest hit would be taking major specific courses once you transfer, which will require a very clear understanding of your fundamental science and math courses (Physics II, DiffEq, Multivar, etc.) and being able to apply those courses to application. The depth to which you go into certain topics can also vary slightly from school to school as well as what’s emphasized. It’s also very different to be able to understand something theoretically and to have a lab than be to trained from the beginning on how to do things entirely by application. Many courses at engineering schools are entirely application based which you wouldn’t be prepared for in the same way at a liberal arts college. Starting off at a school offering more engineering or CS courses, you’d have the opportunity to start those kinds of classes in your first semester.

P.S. Would not use Forbes to compare a liberal arts college to a national university. Overall, I don’t like the idea of comparing a liberal arts school to a STEM school in general since they’re extremely different in focus. In many cases, you need a very rigid curriculum with many required classes of math, science, and engineering at the highest level to be valuable with an engineering degree. The opposite is stressed with a liberal arts degree. Likewise, you’d probably have more offerings in terms of humanities, etc. at a liberal arts college than at a STEM school and vice-versa. At Hamilton, for example, there might be 10 electives for CS. At Columbia, there might be 50. The level of research and prowess of the professors will also vary greatly depending on the focus of the university. Advocating for an engineering student to go a liberal arts college is very similar to advocating for a student to study literature at Rensselaer or RIT, it just doesn’t make very much sense. You can get a degree, but it won’t be of the same quality as literature at Hamilton to give a good example.

@Smartisan5 Have you made your decision?

In response to #42, a few points should be noted with respect to Hamilton’s strength in math and sciences.

Hamilton graduates math majors at ten times the national average and appears, along with URochester, in a Princeton Review sampling, “Great Schools for Mathematics Majors.”

Hamilton’s for-credit math curriculum begins with calc ll. Math and science students will typically complete multivariable calculus as first-years, and could potentially complete linear algebra as well.

38% of Hamilton students choose to major in a STEM field.

Hamilton’s physics department offers advanced courses in topics such as mathematical physics and general relativity, and has produced an Apker recipient (for undergraduate research in physics) and a Nobel laureate. Colgate has also produced an Apker recipient.

Hamilton professors co-wrote a computer science text book that has been used nationally.

Hamilton’s science building has been designed to be leading-edge, aesthetically appealing and generally impressive. It is the largest academic building on campus.

Though humanities can be exceptionally strong at Hamilton, none appear among their five most popular majors.

Hamilton’s rigor in general has been well-recognized, with the school appearing with several engineering-focused colleges here:

https://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings?rankings=students-study-most

Personally, I feel that the OP may be best suited for URochester, but for reasons related to engineering, not math and sciences in general.

@merc81 I wouldn’t use the Princeton Review as the best measure to make determinations about really anything. Also, that’s how it is at most schools with good STEM programs. Most kids start off with Multivariable Calculus or Differential Equations first semester, actually.

In terms of the 38%, I didn’t know that - good fact. In terms of the academic building, why does it matter how that looks? Most engineering schools have dozens of buildings dedicated specifically for math or science, which contain massive labs and million dollar equipment. Hamilton can’t compare in that regard, especially considering most top engineering schools (the institutions themselves) do between $100 million - $250 million a year in research.

In terms of rigor, I didn’t say it wasn’t rigorous. You must acknowledge though that it’s not the same. Again, I would refrain from using rankings from Princeton Review - they really don’t mean much. It’s not the same both in terms of the curriculum and how much is covered in a short period of time and in terms of application. I gave the clear example for Calc II, a lot more is covered if you go to an engineering school. In terms of data structures, it seems that it’s a lot less condensed at Hamilton and I don’t see a lot of topics there that I’ve seen covered in similar courses at other schools. The level to which the concepts are applied may also vary. At RPI, data structures homework usually takes between 20-30 hours each week just for that course. My friend who has taken the same course at Carnegie as quipped about similarly spending most of his week doing homework for his CS courses.

There’s also a much smaller course offering at Hamilton… It seems that algorithms and operating systems are both considered upper level courses at Hamilton. In a traditional CS program, those would be sophomore/early junior classes and be counted as 2000 level prereqs. Going from that, the only advanced courses offered after that are Database Systems and AI. Most schools on top of AI would offer computation vision, machine learning engineering, and several levels of each of those courses for concentrations in the undergraduate curriculum. This is to name one thing, of course. At most schools that are larger with a greater focus on CS,etc. you’ll find dozens of upper level electives in a much greater variety of concentrations.

Even considering other majors, for example, like physics it doesn’t seem like much is offered beyond what would be the equivalents of what physics majors would take by their sophomore year at another institution. You also couldn’t take very in-depth courses in the subject (at least compared to other institutions)- it’s not like Hamilton offers several levels of quantum physics, any courses on fusion (something found at only engineering schools), etc.

Going back to math, at many schools that have a strong engineering program students will learn linear algebra in their engineering classes starting in first semester. The greatest transition though is application. In a science or math class, you learn theories and how to solve problems. In an engineering class, you learn how to use linear algebra to run a circuit analysis using a program you made. It’s very multidisciplinary and almost entirely application. Imagine only having taking electromagnetism and having to design embedded control systems using only that knowledge as a prerequisite? It can be difficult. Also, Hamilton seems to have a much greater focus in its math department on theory. At many engineering schools, it’s a lot more applied math - granted, that can be a deal breaker for many people.

I still have not a made a decision yet. Which school among three is strongest in STEM or Business(ECON)?

I think this attitude is silly because your future is about you, not about your school. These are all very good schools. You should care what the school can do for you.

If you actually want to be an engineer, there is only one reasonable choicehere. Rochester. The other schools simply don’t have it. You can’t study a subject that the schools don’t have.

I am choosing either Colgate or University of Rochester now. So which one is stronger in STEM of Businesses??? However, I have to pay like 8K for U of R but Colgate is nearly free.

Since Colgate, as is the case at many, if not most, highly selective colleges, does not offer a business major, URochester appears as if it would be more aligned with your interests as you have expressed them here.

@joedoe: Though no longer of relevance to the OP, you appear to have been commenting, at least in segments, with limited knowledge of Hamilton’s departments and courses. For example, you wrote:

Hamilton offers:

Physics 290 Quantum Physics

Physics 340 Topics in Quantum Physics

Physics 450 Quantum Theory Seminar

Physics 135 Space-time and the Quantum World (a course for non-majors)

https://www.hamilton.edu/academics/departments/Courses-and-Requirements?dept=physics

@merc81 I looked at the course catalog, and you seem to have limited knowledge of what these courses entail and I said “several.” A seminar course, an advanced topics courses, and an intro to Quantum Physics course is not a lot. The one for non-physics majors we’re going to ignore in this sake since it doesn’t advance the knowledge of a physics major. It show also be considered that the seminar is not offered every year.

Compare that to schools which have traditional strengths in physics…

Rensselaer: (Spring 2017)

ASTRO 4240 - Gravitation & Cosmology
PHYS 2210 - Quantum Physics I
PHYS 2220 - Quantum Physics II
PHYS 4100 – Intro Quantum Mechanics
PHYS 4240 – General Relativity
ECSE/PHYS 4320 - Plasma Engineering
MANE/PHYS 4410 - Applied Atomic and Nuclear Physics
PHYS 4520 - Quantum Mechanics II
PHYS 4940 - Readings in Particle Physics

Carnegie Mellon: (Spring 2017)

33-340 Modern Physics Laboratory
33-234 Quantum Physics I
33-235 Quantum Physics II
33-444 Introduction to Nuclear and Particle Physics
33-780 Nuclear and Particle Physics II
33-650 General Relativity
33-445 Advanced Quantum Physics I
33-446 Advanced Quantum Physics II

Hamilton also having no engineering program, which limits your ability to take cross limited courses and courses in other departments which can be relevant. I’m not trying to say Hamilton has a bad physics department, but if you want to study physics, engineering, or CS you’re better off at an engineering school, at least in my opinion. Rochester likely has similar course offerings to Carnegie or Rensselaer.

Also @Smartisan5 As someone currently studying computer engineering, I’d recommend you going to Rochester. If you can afford it, that’s where you’ll get the best education and the school which has the best STEM or business programs out of those you mentioned above.

Well, I know that Einstein, even though his theories presaged the field, mostly rejected the implications of quantum mechanics, which indicated to me that I should not list, for example, Hamilton’s course in general relativity to illustrate a point on quantum physics.

While generally true, note that Hamilton does offer a certificate program through Harvard Business School:

http://blogs.wgbh.org/on-campus/2015/5/5/harvard-business-school-expands-online-initiative-liberal-arts-colleges/

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/infographics/top-feeders-mba-programs

Now I want to major in. business/Economic, so which colleges among three would be the best option ??

Though Colgate and Hamilton would be superb for economics . . .

https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html

. . . and Hamilton offers a business certificate program through HBS . . .

http://blogs.wgbh.org/on-campus/2015/5/5/harvard-business-school-expands-online-initiative-liberal-arts-colleges/

. . . and outstanding MBA placement . . .

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/infographics/top-feeders-mba-programs

. . . based on the totality of your posts, it might seem that URochester would be the best fit for you.

Wrt MBA placement. Each MBA school has different feeder colleges, For example, Tuck’s top feeder colleges are Middlebury, Bowdoin, Colby, Williams and Bates.

http://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/14/top-feeder-colleges-to-dartmouths-tuck-school/

Williams is the only LAC listed as feeder school for Wharton.
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/08/07/top-feeder-schools-to-whartons-mba-program/

And so on…