While I know it’s presumptuous to assume that I can get into top tier schools, any and all recommendations are welcome. As a junior going through this process with little guidance and a family that hasn’t really been through the college hustle (both graduated, I’m the first child), I’d just like to know where I should focus my attention. I excel at and take joy in the sciences, particularly physics and engineering, but also want to experience the humanities. Wherever I end up, I don’t want to spend all my time interpreting Feynman diagrams or staring at the resultant particle velocities in an atom smasher (even though that would be freakin’ awesome) or sifting through lines of code. I’m curious about the humanities and feel like they offer an appreciation and sense of meaning to any development in any scientific field. Unhampered scientific progress is meaningless without an avenue to implement it into society and affect positive change, so it stands to reason that the humanities should be pretty important.
I’m not huge into declaring a major due to their subjective and volatile nature – at least from what I hear. So here are some central and peripheral points of intrigue for me:
Central: Engineering, Computer Science*
Peripheral: Economics, Psychology, Neuroscience, History, Applied Math, Philosophy, Creative Writing
I just don’t want to be confined to one particular branch of education, because I’m interested in quite a bit of everything. I’ve already been given several schools which “match” me according to my guidance counsellor and Supermatch™, so thoughts and opinions on these schools as well would be appreciated:
MIT
Columbia
Cornell (brrr, cold)
Dartmouth
Carnegie Mellon University
University of Pittsburgh
Rice University
University of Texas: Austin
University of Washington (Honors Program)
UCLA
UC Berkeley
USC
Harvey Mudd College
I already know I don’t like Harvard, CalTech or Princeton (they flat out ignored my friend’s request for disability assistance of any kind, and I have a visual disability so I’m not too keen on them).
Dartmouth is not great for engineering, since ABET-accredited engineering majors take more than four years (12 quarters) worth of course work. Note that Washington CS is very impacted, so if you are not admitted directly as a frosh, you will face an extremely competitive admission process later to enter the major.
Engineering majors typically have lots of requirements, so the schedule space left for H/SS courses will probably be around 12-37% (with required minimums being between 12-25%, depending on the school). Engineering-based CS majors will typically be similar, but non-engineering-based CS majors (with fewer requirements in math and non-CS science) will have more schedule space for H/SS courses (probably up to about 50% if you choose).
You should go to each school’s web site to check the following:
Minimum H/SS requirements (which may differ for engineering and non-engineering majors), including whether there are subareas within the requirements that may limit your H/SS course selection.
Maximum H/SS courses you can take with any given major, which is defined as the total credits or courses to graduate minus those required for the engineering or CS major in question.
What courses the H/SS departments offer that are of interest to you.
But also, unless your parents are wealthy and willing to pay for any university, find out how much they are willing to contribute and try the net price calculator at each school’s web site to see if it is affordable.
You have one more option. A number of engineering schools have agreements with liberal arts colleges where you would study the first 3 years at the liberal arts college where you would get a great deal of exposure to humanities and social science classes, maintain a minimum of B+ average, and then attend the participating engineering school for 2 more years. At the end of the 5 year you get two bachelors degrees one from each school. Columbia University, RPI and Washington University are the engineering schools that dominate this program. Dartmouth, Case Western Reserve and Caltech also participate with a few liberal arts colleges. From everything I have heard from professors, both engineering and LAC really like this program because it exposes the student to the best of both worlds. This program goes by the names of “Combined Engineering” or 3-2 or 3-1-1 (Dartmouth).
While a 3+2 program could allow extra H/SS course work along with an engineering major, there are some details to be aware of:
a. Many “3” schools restrict the liberal arts major there to a science major. These would be unsuitable for the purpose of maximizing the H/SS course work. Some “3” schools (e.g. Brandeis) allow any liberal arts major including H/SS, as long as the engineering preparatory courses are also taken.
b. Admission to the “2” school may be highly competitive (e.g. Caltech), or may require meeting strict grade standards (e.g. Columbia). A 3+2 student who does not get into the designated “2” school(s) associated with the “3” school may find that many schools will not take him/her as a regular transfer due to having senior standing (as opposed to the preferred junior standing for transfer admissions).
c. Scholarships and financial aid at the “2” school are uncertain. Some “2” schools (e.g. Columbia) offer less financial aid to 3+2 students than to frosh or other transfers. Some “2” schools are state universities which offer little or no financial aid to out-of-state students.
d. Remember, a 3+2 program is five years total, meaning an extra year of costs versus a typical four year degree program.
What is your home state? You have a few OOS publics on your list and they’ll be very expensive (little/no aid).
How much will your parents pay each year?
Have you had your parents run the NPC’s on a few of these schools’ websites?
Do you have a non custodial parent? If so, will he help pay for college?
What are your stats? What are your test scores, including SAT breakdown? If you haven’t yet tested, what was your PSAT?
What is your rank?
If you need aid, what schools are your financial safeties? These are schools that you know FOR SURE will be affordable because of ASSURED merit/grants, family funds, and/or small fed loans ($5500)/
groan to you–enduring a lecture before getting to the questions…
your insistence on the engineering portion is driving the school selection. If you truly want to explore in college, don’t go with a traditional engineering major. Go with CS in the Arts and Letters college.
Anyways, here are the ones that I think would be good, though there are some caveats.
You should look at Case Western Reserve University. It’s a fantastic safety. Calling it a safety really discredits how good it is.
Pitt: If you’re admitted to the honors program, I believe that has priority registration, which will allow you to take a wider range of classes. You can also take CMU classes if Pitt doesn’t offer them, which is a great perk. Could definitely be a good choice if you’re in PA.
Harvey Mudd: If you’re fine with a small school, would be fantastic.
Cornell: Very flexible academics. Kind of isolated.
MIT: You’re required to have a minor. It’ll be easy to take new courses.
I can’t comment on the rest of your list for also fitting in liberal arts courses.
Another school to look at is Northwestern University. It uses a Trimester schedule, so you’ll be able to fit in 6 to 8 or so classes over your academic career, and they encourage looking outside of engineering. That would be a good fit as well, as a reach school.
MIT and Harvey Mudd both have substantial humanities and social studies requirements, including a concentration requirement and a distribution requirement within the category.
Quarter or trimester system schools will often (but not always) have you take more courses over a year, but each course will be “smaller”. Dartmouth is somewhat different, in that students will take fewer courses per quarter, but each course in the 10 week quarter is considered to be as “large” as a course in a 15 week semester.
I never suggested it being a last choice, or not demonstrating interest. I don’t know about other students, but I toured every school that I applied to before applying, which would count as demonstrated interest for Case.
@ucbalumnus: It depends. In many classes at NU, we were told that we cover as much material in a quarter as other schools do (of the same course) in a semester.
Of course, even among semester schools, some schools cover as much material in semester as others do in 2, so keep that in mind as well.
You’d definitely be able to take more courses at a quarter-system school, however, and generally students feel like it’s easier to fit in double(/triple) majors in that system.
Hmmm, looking at NU’s catalog, the basic frosh/soph math sequence is six quarter courses (220, 224, 230, 234, 240, 250) covering the same material as four semester courses (calculus, multivariable calculus, linear algebra, differential equations). The introductory physics sequence (135-1, 135-2, 135-3) also appears to cover the same amount of material for a given amount of time, although topics are covered in a different order at different schools. Introductory economics is two quarters, but semester schools vary between one semester and two semesters. Intermediate micro and macro economics (310-1, 310-2, 311) take up a year, but is divided into 2/3 micro and 1/3 macro instead of 1/2 and 1/2 as at semester schools. General chemistry (101, 102, 103) and organic chemistry (212-1, 212-2, 212-3) are each one year sequences, as is the case at semester schools.
Seems that all of these common sequences of courses are just divided up into smaller pieces, with similar amounts of instructional time for a similar amount of material. In theory, it is possible that an NU instructor could cover the same topics in greater depth or something like that compared to another school, but, if that were true, it would not be an artifact of being on the quarter system.
NU is on the quarter system. Michigan is on the trimester. Speaking of Michigan, you should also check it out since it is stellar in both engineering and humanities.
They call it a quarter system, but it’s really more of a trimester. The fourth quarter is the summer quarter, which is optional. So unless you want to stay over the summer, it’s a trimester system. Kids use it for research and extra classes.
Forgive me if I’m repeating, but there are a few ways I’m familiar with to approach engineering education and practice:
Schools that actually have real, comprehensive engineering faculty and resources
These schools tend to offer “traditional” ABET-accredited degrees in a sub-area- eg, BS in electrical engineering.
This is what many traditional engineering employers, who hire into departments by discipline, expect.
The curriculum is fairly standard among institutions, and affords a certain number of free electives outside of engineering. But limited.
Typically (though specifics must be checked at each school) you will have some opportunities to pursue studies in:
Economics, Psychology, Neuroscience, History, Applied Math, Philosophy, Creative Writing
but limited. You would have to check whether those courses are available at a given institution (most are generic; check Registrar’s list of courses if in doubt) and how strong those departments are, if you care.
On the other hand if your interest in your peripheral fields is just for general knowledge, there is no reason general knowledge acquisition needs to stop after you receive a BS degree. You can take courses, for yucks, the rest of your life.
Some schools possess merely a teeny number of engineering resources and faculty, covering the field selectively and non-comprehensively:
Some of such schools of necessity, and often preference, offer only “general engineering” or “engineering science” degrees. eg BS engineering with no specialty; not ABET- accredited.
In these programs you can or must take more courses outside of engineering than ABET allows. . But there is no free lunch. You will have less training in engineeering per ABET, and conventional engineering employers who hire by department may not know what to do with you. On the other hand there may be no penalty whatsoever for other employers who do not give a hoot about ABET, and it seems like maybe the computer field is one such group that does not care. I defer to those who are in it, but that’s the sense I get from reading CC. Also if you are there and actually want to pursue higher levels of engineering, or various specialty areas, these may be unavailable to you at these schools, since many of them have teeny engineering departments and offer relatively few engineering courses. Some of them are missing whole huge sub-areas of engineering, eg civil engineering, entitely. You may find that a higher percentage of students in these programs do not go directly, or ever, into practice as working engineers. A number of them want to be scientists, some of them want to be business people with some exposure to engineering, and some of those who want to practice may tend to go on to master’s programs to pick up what they missed in undergrad.While others are funneled into those fields that don’t care about ABET. IMO. which may be fine if you want what is funneled. On the other hand you may never know what you missed.
Some schools, mostly LACs, that don’t have engineering at all try to lure people in anyway by claiming to have it, by arranging “3-2” programs with “real” engineering schools. With no engineering faculty at the school. no engineering courses there, it is not surprising that few people complete this program. People who do enter the “2” phase are disadvantaged with respect to their engineering studies in a number of ways vs. those who started in engineering in the first place.
This path does offer more opportunities for the peripherals. Though maybe not as much extra time for peripherals as one may think, because you are required to take math & science prerequisites at the LAC, not just whatever you might want to take.
Aside from those on your original list, I would second Case Western. I would also add the University of Rochester and Big Ten schools with top engineering departments like Minnesota, Wisconsin and Ohio State to your list.
“They call it a quarter system, but it’s really more of a trimester. The fourth quarter is the summer quarter, which is optional.”
No, it’s definitely a quarter system. Look at the start and complete dates for the calendar year. Almost all major universities have a summer quarter/trimester and they are always optional. The biggest difference is the amount of weeks spent in the classroom/class and the number of finals. Most students take two finals/academic year and NU students have three. To graduate in four years, assuming no additional credits, you will need to sign up for three quarters at NU/year. At schools on trimesters you just need to take two sessions/year. See the difference now?
