<p>I'm currently entering my junior year at the University of Toronto, studying mathematics and physics. University of Toronto is similar to most universities in North America, except for this one thing that confuses me.</p>
<p>I want to go into grad school for physics. Naturally, I thought that I would be doing a double major -- in both math and physics. The University of Toronto has this option.</p>
<p>However, they also have an option that I have not seen in other universities I've looked at: a "Specialist" program. Basically, you take a large number of courses (up to 15) in a single field. Usually, a couple of the courses in Specialist programs are higher in difficulty level than the courses prescribed in the Major program. However, the greater number of courses required for "Specialist" means that one cannot take a major or minor in the same degree.</p>
<p>My issue is this: I am currently enrolled in a program called "Mathematics and Physics, Specialist". So I am taking a single program that combines math and physics into a single specialization. But I am thinking that perhaps I should take a double major, that is, do a Mathematics Major and a Physics Major instead of the single Specialist. I am thinking of switching because my GPA isn't doing so well, and I am doubtful about whether grad schools, especially those located outside central Canada, can tell the difference between a degree labeled "Mathematics and Physics Specialist" and one labeled "Mathematics Major + Physics Major".</p>
<p>Which one should I go for, considering that I would like to go on to grad school for physics. Math&Physics Specialist has harder courses, but may be less recognized and counts as only one area of specialization compared to the Math and Physics double major?</p>
<p>whats the difference? for 1 specialization u take 15 courses, but double major u must take like 10 in physics and 10 in math, which seems more difficult.
besides, for both options u still get just a single degree in science
i think u should ask the school officials for more clarity though</p>
<p>Since grad schools will weight research experience, letters of rec, academic preparation, GPA and GRE's in more or less that order, I think your decision should be based on your estimate of what is the best course of action to obtain the above requirements for grad school. Remember that you will have more of an opportunity to explain your academic situation to grad school admission folks than undergrad, so I would not worry too much that they would not understand your situation.</p>
<p>Transglobal Spectacle: The program requirements for the math major and for the physics major overlap, so I will only end up taking 12 or so courses, less than that of the Math & Physics Specialist. The difference is that Math & Physics Specialist has a higher number of math-based and physics-based courses, which are also more difficult than those prescribed in the math major / physics major.</p>
<p>mol10e: So research experience, letters of rec are more important than GPA? What do you mean by academic preparation? I don't know about international schools, but the professor I asked said that GPA is the first thing they look at, followed by letters of reference and research experience.</p>
<p>Academic preparation refers to the nature of your coursework, the college you attended, a senior thesis if you wrote one, etc. If you have a professor you worked with on research and the prof writes you a good letter of rec and you apply to programs where there are other faculty who do similar research as yours, I believe this trumps GPA (as long as the GPA is in the ballpark). Remember that grad programs need students who will be able to contribute to faculty and departmental research programs. It probably doesn't matter too much to them whether your GPA is a 3.5 or a 4.0 as long as you can do the work.</p>
<p>So if I'm getting you mol10e, then it would be better to do advanced courses and get a lower GPA than to take normal level courses and get a high GPA?</p>
<p>The problem is that my GPA is borderline with the advanced courses, and the advanced program is something called a "Specialist program" that other colleges don't have and might not know that it's harder than a regular double major.</p>
<p>What do you mean by borderline? Borderline for elite grad programs, grad programs in general? I would suggest that you invest your time in working with a professor in some scholarly fashion (preferably scientific research). If you think your GPA is going to be a weakness in applying to your desired grad programs, then you must boost your application in some other fashion. If this means getting out of the specialist program and concentrating solely on your physics major (to improve your GPA) then do so since physics grad school is your stated objective. But it should also include getting involved with the faculty in a manner which will get you good letters of recommendation. Double majors don't increase your chances for grad school admission unless it is some integrative grad program looking for the two bodies of knowledge.</p>
<p>My GPA's around 3.24, so it's borderline for most good schools.</p>
<p>And I'm wondering how I can get involved with the faculty, as you said. Do I just go around checking professors' websites and e-mailing them hoping that they'll hire me as a research assistant? If this is indeed the standard way to get letters of recommendation, what time of year is best to check for profs hiring?</p>
<p>Double majors don't increase chances? I was thinking that a math major might show grad schools that I have additional math knowledge, which would be important for physics, I would think.</p>
<p>Physics programs expect that you will have a good grasp of mathematics. Unless there are some specific math courses associated with applications in physics I would not bust my butt trying to get enough credits for a double major in math. You can certainly wait to have profs post announcements for opennings in their labs, but a much better way is to check out the university website and find out what types of research the physics profs are doing and see what interests you. A second way is to meet with a former professor who knows you and who you like and ask if you can work on some of her/his research. the time to email and get involved is now or as soon as you return to school for the beginning of the new semester.</p>
<p>math majors end up taking a lot of courses (although fairly interesting IMO) somewhat useless for physics. your not going to need real analysis or abstract algebra for physics. no one or school for that matter is going to frown upon <em>just</em> a physics major applying for their programs or <em>just</em> a math major. both majors are difficult enough, and if feel you can do a lot better just pursuing one (or in this case getting out of this 'specialty' program) then do that.</p>
<p>My two options were: Mathematics and Physics Specialist OR Math Major + Physics Major</p>
<p>Math Major + Physics Major has 7 (Math) + 7.5 (Physics) - 3 (overlap) = 11.5 courses in total</p>
<p>Math & Physics Specialist has 13.5 courses, many of which are harder than the math/physics double major.</p>
<p>Of course I need 20 courses in total to get my degree.</p>
<p>I am thinking that with Math & Physics Specialist I am already busting my butt unnecessarily, but mol10e and hdotchar, are you saying that even the math / physics double major is excessive for getting into grad school? i.e. I could go in with a physics + spanish double major and all the grad school would care for is the physics?</p>
<p>that's pretty much what i'm saying. the majority of people entering graduate schools ARE NOT double majors. the fact is studying math or physics by itself is already a fairly difficult field of study. no one's going to look down on your because you didn't double major in them. the fact is that double majoring in the sciences and/or engineering is very difficult and is a road traveled by very few. </p>
<p>i dont know what you really want to become, but i would suggest a single major and (if your interested in majoring in spanish then do that). if this means you can significantly pull up your gpa, then this is worth it. plus you will have extra time to pursue things that are not school-related (possibly research, interning, working with a professor, abroad study). all of these things can make a big difference as well when it comes to applying for grad school programs.</p>
<p>if your sole purpose of getting that double major is so that "it looks good", its not worth it.</p>
<p>So I should forget about the Math & Physics Specialist, which is even more impressive math and physics than the double major?</p>
<p>But I remember you said that academic preparation was important. Wouldn't the Specialist Program give me the most preparation, having the most number of math & physics related courses and the most advanced and difficult, and a single physics major having the least because of the lack of math-related courses that might be important for theoretical physics?</p>
<p>Yes but you were worried that this would negatively impact your GPA. Try to get away from the idea of "how is this going to look" and instead focus on what skills and experiences you would enjoy and would fit with a physics grad program. Letters of rec, research experiences, GPA, academic prep in that order.</p>