Harvey Mudd does allow students to have an off-campus major (i.e. major based in one of the other adjacent Claremont colleges), but such students have to have at least a minor at Harvey Mudd as well, plus complete its extensive general education requirements. Of course, it has science and math majors natively, as well as engineering.
Very few students do the off campus major at Mudd, and pretty much none come in with the intention to do so, it just works out that way. Regarding Rose vs Mudd, both are strong engineering programs (my D did a summer program at Rose, so we are pretty familiar with it). But Mudd students have significantly higher test scores.
Rose 25-75% ranges:
SAT CR - 540-670
SAT Math - 640-750
Mudd 25-75% range:
SAT CR - 670 - 770
SAT M - 740-800
Also, don’t know if it is important to your D, but over 50% of the engineering grads are women at Mudd.
Mudd does have other STEM majors – math, physics, chem, bio, and some combinations of those.
The Ivy-ish admissions are competitive, but I’m under the impression that other than Cornell/MIT/Stanford, the engineering programs are not more brutal than others. (That is based only on research for my kids. My own engineering studies were are a less known STEM school… but still tough - there are few easy engineering programs.)
What kind of academic rigor does she have now in hs? You say she is likes low stress, but she still managed perfect grades. If that included AP Calc and Physics, she’ll probably do just fine in college.
Engineering curriculum is rigorous (at varying levels) AND very prescribed (if ABET accredited, which you want it to be). . Some students, find they need to switch to a major with more course variety. So if your D is tentative on the engineering, she may be happiest at a school with many majors rather than a STEM school.
Just as an alternative, one of D2’s good friends from high school with a 35 ACT and NMF status is happy as an engineering major at Michigan Tech.
Thanks everyone! Actually I am reminded that D doesn’t want a small school (she would prefer over 6000 or so-- no hard numbers though) so she wouldn’t visit Rose or Mudd. Regarding academic rigor in high school, I would guess rigorous, not ultra-rigorous. Since standardized test scores is all I can compare with nationally, she has made 5’s on AP World, Biology, English, and Spanish, and a 4 on AP U.S. History. It’s only been this year that she’s been allowed to take Honors Physics, AP Computer Science, AP Calculus BC, Honors Economics, AP English Lit. In addition, she is in orchestra, psychology, and required to take theology (all 3 of these are extremely easy.) She has all A’s this first quarter. She has been involved with FIRST robotics for three years, but wasn’t one of the hard-core team members-- she enjoyed building the robot, but didn’t design or program it-- not sure why other than she didn’t have the knowledge for either, and like I said, no “passion.”
I think she would like to continue on the “rigorous” path, not ultra-rigorous that she sees at MIT, etc.
^This. Elitism will only limit your opportunities.
There are many great engineering programs out there with less-than-perfect incoming freshman SAT scores.
Mudd is part of the Claremont Consortium, which has about 5,000 students. The five college campuses fit together sort of like Lego blocks to form a bigger campus. Students can cross register for courses easily, eat in any dining hall, and the campuses share some common resources like libraries, health service, and exercise facikities. So while Mudd is a small, it is tightly linked to Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Pitzer, and Scripps. Your D may already know that, but just in case she doesn’t.
It is always hard to balance all the competing criteria when looking for a college, and usually impossible to find one that meets all. Usually you have to give on some criteria. It is difficult to reconcile wanting a school of over 6,000 students, yet find a more nuturing environment. Some students really want to be with intellectual peers, while others are fine with being stronger students than their peers; nobody coasts in engineering, but she is going to have an easier time in a school where her stats are in the top percentage of students. You might prefer something closer to home, but the best fit might be on one of the coasts.
I will say that I went to Michigan, and lived with a bunch of engineering majors my junior and senior year. They worked their tails off. Michigan is a great school, but supportive does not come to mind when I think about my years there.
Engineering is a hard major. There are no easy paths.
This was exactly the situation my son was looking for. He patently rejected schools like Cal Tech, MIT, Colorado School of Mines, Cornell, etc. that had reputations for being grinds that created suicidal students. Why choose to learn that way. Plus, those schools and Stanford, Berkeley and a few others are FAR better for graduate school than undergrad. He too was a strong student. He didn’t want too small, nor did he want massive.
He ended up at Cal Poly (from out of state) and is quite happy. Engineering admission is very competitive, especially for CS, ME, and Aero, the majors they are best known for. It’s not unheard of for students to get into Berkeley and be rejected by Poly. The big difference is they admit strictly by algorithm. It consists of GPA, test scores, and a metric to measure rigor and EC hours. Finish above the cut off line, you get an offer. Finish below, you don’t. There’s none of the "they might need a male clarinet player from the midwest mumbo jumbo.
He’s very happy. They don’t offer doctorates, so nearly all of the resources are directed towards undergrads. The lab facilities are spectacular with more than 80 freestanding labs in the College of Engineering alone. Based on what you said above, it’s certainly worth a visit.
BTW, no matter where she goes, no matter how she did in high school, engineering is not easy. She may not be drinking from a fire hose ala Cal Tech, but she’ll likely work harder than she did in high school if she wants to continue her high level of achievement.
Good luck!
eyemgh, Can I ask which universities made his list of contenders? D knows she’ll have to work harder in college than she’s doing in high school, so I’m not too worried about that. At least she’s motivated to do well, even though she hasn’t found anything terribly interesting yet.
His list wasn’t typical. He looked at LOTS of schools. His highest priorities were to avoid the grind schools, land somewhere that undergraduate teaching is prioritized and to choose a program that started in a hands on fashion second year at the latest and ideally as a freshman. He applied to Oregon State, Cal Poly, Stanford, Colorado State, Utah, Case Western, WPI and RPI. With the exception of Stanford, he got in to all of them with merit aid.
Each student’s list should be based on what’s important to them, both academically and non-academically. Too many fall into putting all their emphasis on rankings alone. He ended up at the #2 ranked ME program for what ever that means (schools w/o PhD), but that had zero influence on getting Cal Poly onto the list in the first place and no impact on why CP was his final choice.
Hope that helps.
What type of engineering is she interested in?
I came to that conclusion through
- visiting with my D and talking to engineering students
- the vibe from visiting that Rochester is just a kinder gentler kind of school. You see it in everything they do.
- interviewing graduates
- hiring graduates as interns
- My actual experience with Rochester recent grads is very similar to that of Tufts. Often very smart, but the standard for what they view as difficult or projects that they’ve done that they view as substantial are much less than what I’ve seen from the graduates of places like Michigan, Cornell, MIT, RPI and other top schools. Whether reasonable or not, more seems to be expected of students from those latter schools.
Would you say that if I send my daughter to Rochester, i would be risking her future employability?
D is going at this by process of elimination. Not interested in anything medical / health related, so ruled out Biomedical. Really didn’t like honors chemistry, so ruling out Chemical Engineering. No interest in electrical / computer so ruling out EE and Computer Engineering. Civil / Environmental is still in but the thought of road / bridge / sewer design and construction isn’t floating her boat, and Mechanical is somehow still in too. Industrial Engr- no idea. Before anyone says the obvious that she shouldn’t get into engineering without being really interested in it, in her defense, she gets told a lot that she should be an engineer, so she’s considering it. Again, smart girl, no passion in anything, but will work to do well. She’s currently doing one of those “personality” and “interest” evaluations to get any insights there, but she’s somewhat skeptical about any real advice coming from there.
no
Lots of red flags when people tell her she should be an engineer, but it doesn’t really light her fire. My D2 went to an engineering program summer before senior year to decide if engineering made sense for her, and if so what kind. She was sure afterwards that it was not the major for her (currently a physics major with an addition emphasis in CS). Sorry to say, but this doesn’t have the hallmarks of a successful search with a happy kid down the road to me. It feels like you/your kid are looking for an easier program so she can power through in spite of lukewarm interest. The problem is larger than “what engineering school should she choose”.
Yes, intparent, you have reaffirmed what I’ve been thinking. I sent her to the Purdue STEP engineering program this summer in hopes that she’d be enlightened. That’s where she ruled out Biomedical Engr. When I asked if she wanted to rule out engineering altogether she said no. Personally I think she should power through computer science and just get a job and pursue her interests outside of work. That’s what I did and it worked for me, and I even grew to like CS. Of course, I’m her stupid parent though. How did your D2 decide on CS?
Lots of students (I was one of them) choose engineering as a major because they are bright, do well in school, don’t know their passion yet, and everyone encourages them since they’re smart to study engineering for the ROI.
Many of those students do get weeded out. Some because they never developed good study habits in high school, and being thrown into heavy math/science classes right away is more than they can handle. Some decide to slack off now that they’re away from home. Some find that while they enjoyed and did well in certain courses in high school, they don’t enjoy or do well in them at the collegiate level. “Weeding out” is not so much about brutally excluding talented kids. It’s about making sure the kids who do go on to the higher-level, extremely intensive engineering courses are those who are most likely to succeed (for any number of different reasons).
For me, I switched to Math/Computer Science my freshman year voluntarily - had great grades in all my classes, but realized I didn’t have the passion to continue in engineering. I’ve never regretted that decision.
(S is considering engineering, but for the same reasons I’m encouraging him to explore other majors, especially since he also has a strong interest in Humanities and would like to minor in Philosophy, which could be difficult given the demands of an engineering curriculum. My minor in Communication helped me in my career, and I’ve encourage my kids to minor in something completely unrelated to their major if possible).
OP, my daughter is at Harvey Mudd, where they spend most of their first three semesters taking a rigorous set of core coursework. It includes an intro CS course that she liked (also an engineering course that she didn’t like 
). She started down the CS major path, but kept taking physics beyond the required 3 semesters. Ultimately she decided to switch to physics, but they have an option that combines it with CS, so that is the major she is pursuing.
Mudd tries to make summer research available to most of their freshman, and she did CS research both of her first 2 summers (presented results at a conference this fall). This semester she started researching with a physics prof, too. But lots of students get internships, it just depends on their interests.