Hi, I am new here, this is my first post. I have learned a lot just browsing through old posts, but still don’t know the answer to my question.
My son would really benefit from accelerated honors math and science classes (his areas of strength and interest) which our local public school does not offer. They do have accelerated math, however one year accelerated only but for some reason these are not honors classes. In 9th and 10th grade the only honors classes offered are in English. AP science classes are only offered in 11th and 12th grade, while history AP starts at 10th grade. The school also doesn’t have substantial electives in science (no anatomy and physiology, organic chemistry or genetics/biotechnology) which prep schools tend to have. This means that he will have to go through 9th and 10th grade with no really challenging work in Math and Science and then have to pile up on science AP science subjects in 11th and 12th grade. Perhaps taking AP Chemistry and AP Biology in his junior year.
To put things in perspective he would like to apply to competitive schools including the Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, Chicago and the like.
My question is, is he better off for ivy admission in a top prep school that will challenge him in Math and Science starting from 9th grade (where he may not graduate in the top 10%) or stay in a public school that will not challenge him as much until 11th and 12th grades (where he will end up graduating close to the top of his class, top 5-10%)?
Really, he isn’t in high school yet and he already knows he would like to go to the Ivys and top ten schools? And you already know he would graduate in the top 5-10% of his class?
Forgive the cynicism, but I am not a fan of trying to shape your child’s future college outcomes in this manner. The best way to help your child get into a college that is appropriate for him is to be supportive and nurturing of HIS interests and abilities.
I have no idea of course if you are discussing your eldest child, but many parents (I was one) are in for a rude awakening once their kid hits high school. Having a kid in college, and having been on this forum for several years now, it is clear that many parents come to understand that their child is not exceptional, except to the parents. If your child IS exceptional, it is probably clear by now. And if your child is exceptional, your child will do very well in college admissions, given the right support, regardless of where he attends high school.
FWIW, conventional wisdom says it’s better to be a big fish in a small pond.
There is no one answer that will fit every combination of prep schools and public schools. I would say your best bet would be to contact the guidance offices and get details about the college admission history of the two particular schools in question.
And I would strongly guard against setting up a goal or expectation of admission to an Ivy school. Unless you have a hook, these schools are so competitive (generally under 10% admission rate, many lower) that they have to reject many qualified applicants. Regardless of your child’s academic and other achievements, admission for an unhooked applicant will be far from assured.
Lindagaf thanks for responding. However I am surprised that somehow you read that I thought my child is exceptional. If I thought he was exceptional I would expect him to be at the top of any prep school he attends, in which case there is no problem expect for financial outlay. I would simple pull him out of public school and send him to a good prep school that allows a student interested in math and science to study advanced courses all 4 years of high school if they so desire and place into the classes. On the contrary I am saying that although he is currently doing very well in his public school and will most likely graduate near the top of his class is he continues doing as well, he is very unlikely to be at the top 10% of a prep school. I am sure this would resonate with a lot of parents, not just me.
Yes he does want to go to an ivy or similar school even though he is not in high school yet, just like he “knows” that he wants to get a PhD and become a research scientist in Biology even though his grandma has tried to discourage him by telling him that a lot of biologists are unemployed. I guess just the same way some kids want to be a famous musician or athlete or be a doctor or lawyer even though they are not yet in high school. Of course his interests could change when he gets to high school and he would decide to become a historian like his grandma, but I have to take into account his interests at the moment and the interests he has had since grade 1 (which happen to be math and science only).
I know ivy league and similar admission is a lottery and stress inducing so this is certainly not coming from me, he is a math/science focused kid in a public school which emphasizes English/social studies/history. I have no idea whether he will graduate in the top 10% of his class for certain but if a child is in a middle school that groups children into high honors, honors and non-honor groups each grading period I think it is fairly easy to see where your child falls.
We will have to pay out of pocket for him to go to a prep school so frankly we would rather save that money and keep him in public school, just like his siblings. For us to pay for a prep school, it will have to improve his chances for achieving his goals not decrease them.
happy1 thanks for your response, I really don’t have any particular prep school in mind since we have not even applied to any. I am wondering if it is even “worth” starting the process if it will reduce his options for getting into a college of his dreams down the road, that is if graduating within the top 10% of the class is what matters for admission. On the other hand it may still be worth it for him to go to a prep school which will be a better fit for him now and not worrying about where he will end up after high school. This is especially since the wrong fit could result in him becoming disinterested in school.
I have already told him that what matters for college admissions is the “right fit”, which will be easier to determine when he is a junior in high school. I have also told him that getting into those schools is not guaranteed event if your are a really string student and that all those top schools are very different.
Are there any community colleges nearby where your child can enroll in a summer, concurrent, or dual enrollment classes that would be supported by the public school and supplement his math/science goals?
Most public schools allow their advanced students to take courses elsewhere, if they do not offer them.
Any courses taken at the college level would then become part of the students HS transcript, thereby allowing them to retain their Freshman status (important for financial aid) for college application purposes.
Thanks hop for this tip. There is one community college nearby I will call the high school to find out what their policies are regarding this. I assume he will have to attend the community college after the school day, if the school allows this since he will certainly miss some of his school classes if he had to attend during the day.
I would encourage you to think about this differently. What environment would be best for your son for the next four years? Forget the four years after that at this point – they’ll follow if you get the next four right. I know it sounds cliché, but your son will have the best shot at ANY admissions if he’s the best version of himself in all respects – academically, socially, emotionally – when he applies. If your public school is perfect for him in pretty much every way except for the availability of courses in one subject, what about @hop’s suggest of community college, online classes, or a summer program? All would cost less than prep school.
If you think, though, that your public school really isn’t the best place for your son and the only reason to stay is for the “stat” of being top of the class, that’s a bad reason. That may not impress an AO at a top school. If your son would really blossom in the environment that a prep school (I assume you’re talking boarding school?) provides, that could be a great option. They are typically set up to be much more flexible in terms of individualizing coursework, allowing kids to participate in both athletics and arts, etc. Most have excellent college counseling, and kids from the middle of the class remain candidates for top schools. At the top BS, the colleges know that if they did well there, they’ll succeed at their programs.
Ideally, the high school record should demonstrate that a kid has what it takes to excel at a top school which means having sought out a challenge and done well with it. While getting into colleges is competitive, it probably won’t serve you well to think of it as a competition (if that makes sense.)
There are fewer Ivy frosh than high school valedictorians. Top 5% versus top 10% might not be that big a difference in that context.
Look mainly at how the academic offerings match up to the student’s interests, rather than long shot college admission chances.
Also consider costs. Spending too much money on high school may limit his college choices based on cost. Since there are also siblings, you may want to make your financial plan now, so that you do not promise any of your kids more school money than you actually have.
Short answer - it’s best to be in the top 10% for selective college admissions. As @Lindagaf wrote, better to a a big fish in a small pond. So, save your money and keep him in the public school.
Longer answer - my kids go to a small public HS that doesn’t offer as many AP as our neighboring bigger schools, so I feel like I can relate to your question. It doesn’t seem to hurt the kids in college admissions, but your son may end up at a college where other kids have taken many more APs. If you feel like that may be an issue, have him take a couple of APs online or college classes at a local college. Also, let him focus on some cool extracurriculars. If he is interested in science, I would encourage him to do research and enter a science fair. Doing well at a science fair is what will help him in selective college admissions - not how many AP classes he has taken.
Remember the number one rule in selective college admissions - do NOT let your child fall in love with one school (or in your case - one group of schools - the Ivy League). Start early by driving around college campuses whenever you are near one. Get out and walk around. Visit your state university and visit some big, research oriented mid level universities. Reread the second paragraph of what @happy1 wrote - great advice!
gardenstatesgal you said “I know it sounds cliché, but your son will have the best shot at ANY admissions if he’s the best version of himself in all respects – academically, socially, emotionally – when he applies”. This really resonates with me, because I am really worried about the social/emotional. He has been asking for more opportunities in math and science since elementary school and I keep telling him to wait until he gets to high school. Well he is almost there now and to hear that he may not be able to get what he needs in high school was very tough for him to take, it brought tears to his eyes.
He has done some online classes, but the homework load in school is increasing so soon it may not be easy for him to keep up with both the homework for online classes and his regular school homework. The optimum number of online classes for him in high school will most likely drop to 1, since he has a lot of extracurricular activities which he is reluctant to drop. Perhaps when he gets to high school he can swap online classes for a community college if his high school will allow this,I am sure he will prefer the face-to-face option since that will make it easier for him to do labs.
The public school is not perfect for him socially either (its a better fit for his siblings) but he gets by. I think a school where more kids are interested in math and science at the level he is interested in those subjects will be a better fit for him. There are public schools like that in our state (exam schools) but it will require a long daily commute for him which will really wear him out. This is why we are considering prep school as an option. The public high school has options for him to participate in both the arts and sports, so this we don’t need to take this into consideration. However the college counselling and individualization of coursework you mention will really make his life easier.
I know some kids who have found “their people” at summer programs (like CTY) and that has carried them through the year.’
BS is very expensive, and while most offer some kind of FA, it will still be a big financial commitment. If, however, you can do it and you’re very intentional about finding the right school for your son, it can be totally worth it. These are really formative years. You may want to head over to the prep school admissions board and start checking out those threads (if you haven’t already).
Don’t do it, though, if you are doing it only to game college admissions. It often doesn’t work!
ucbalumnus yes cost is a major consideration. We moved to our neighborhood for the good school district so that we could save for college and not have to pay for private school. Since our public school is considered to be reasonably good (but not the one of the best in the area) we never anticipated that our son’s may not be met there. Hubby and I are pretty confused now about what to do now, since we will need to pay for college too. Academic offerings will only be restricted in the first two years of public high school, not 11th and 12th grade when the options for APs will be enough to keep him busy in science and he could do online or community college math (if high school will allow that).
SueAnneW, he has been participating in science fairs and has been doing well in them, but since neither his dad or are scientists or engineers we really can’t help him in this area. This is another reason why a school with a stronger math/science focus will be a better fit, he will have mentors there. I will take your advice and drive him around college campuses in our area, we really haven’t done that.
gardenstategal he qualifies for the CTY programs and has done some of their online classes, however I think he will be limited in the number of those classes he can take during the year in high school due to homework and extracurricular activities. He hasn’t taken any of their summer classes, so we would look into it this year (if the classes he will be interested in are still open). If we pay for prep school it will certainly be for ‘fit’ not to increase college admission chances, my question is really whether to keep him in public school to keep his admissions options open and to save money for college (assuming the competitive environment at boarding or day prep schools will decrease his options or close some doors altogether).
Have you run the Net Price Calculators for colleges you think your son might want to attend? It might be wiser to take the money you would be shelling out for prep school and put it aside for college. Assuming his interests stay the same, I’d personally focus on identifying very affordable undergrad schools that are strong in the sciences and let him shoot for the prestige in grad school. Ivies are reaches for everyone so you’ll need to have affordable matches and safeties anyway. Remember that nobody cares where a PhD biologist went to undergrad.
I think your assumption is right in that the mid-tier kids at prep schools don’t generally end up at Ivy League schools unless they’re highly privileged from the outset. If you spend down your money on prep schools, you reduce his options for college.
Our kids go to a top rated (for what those ratings are worth) public high school in our state. We have many friends in our town and in other school districts near us who choose, for various reasons, to send their children to private school. We were talking to one such friend whose son attended a well-respected private prep school and somehow found ourselves discussing rate of admission for our respective high schools to Penn State Schreyer Honors College. The overall acceptance rate for Schreyer is 20-25% which is much lower than overall acceptance to Penn State main campus. In addition, Schreyer limits their incoming freshman class to 300 total students.
Our public high school had 17 admits to Schreyer from the most recent graduating class of 500 students. Our friend’s private prep school had no admits from their graduating class of about 250 students (and per our friend there were definitely students that applied). I was completely surprised by that disparity. I am not trying to downplay the benefits that can come from a private prep school, but simply use this example to illustrate that attending a private prep school is not necessarily a guaranteed path to selective college admissions.
Mamaedefamilia thanks a lot for the link. I didn’t realize that there were merit awards for prep school admissions that will definitely help if he can get one. He is in 6th grade so the scholarship application would be an option for him next year although they are probably looking for truly exceptional children so he might not make the cut. Nevertheless, I will show him the link when he gets back from school, he will be very excited. At least it will be something to keep his spirits up, he was very down in the dumps yesterday this is what really prompted me to post.