Which IVY is the easiest to get in to?

Applying to College
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<p>PR shows Rice has a median SAT of 1435, 88% in top 10% of hs class and 25% acceptance rate. It shows Cornell has median SAT of 1385, 84% in top 10% of hs class and 25% acceptance rate. I'm not really sure how one could not interpret the two to be on par. If anything, Rice is a bit more selective.</p>

<p>Also, the comment that Cornell is the most self-selective pool of the Ivys I can't possibly believe is true, depending on exactly what the poster meant by it. I would think the applicant pools of Harvard, Yale, Princeton would have a higher SAT than the enrolled pool of just A&S and Engineering at Cornell.</p>

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<p>am12388: I never said I was going to apply to any of these...I was just wondering thats all.</p>

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<p>gellino, I was saying that most people who apply to Cornell go for an engineering major, and since that is what Cornell wants, it will accept more of the applicants.
Whereas for other Ivies people are a lot more likely to apply just for the fun of it, not really considering so much if they are a fit. And it's obvious that "fits" have an immensely greater chance of getting in.</p>

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<p>Cornell's engineering program is the best in the Ivy League. BUT their other programs are much less prestigious. Cornell is the ivy that I've heard slammed most often.</p>

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<p>What leads you to believe that Cornell's engineering program is the best in the Ivy League? I'm just curious--not trying to snap at you at all. It's just that I've always heard that, for years and years...and any general statement like that going around for a decade has got to be questionable?</p>

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<p>Word of mouth and prestige. PLUS what my counselor says and interest level of engineering students at my school. I'm sure that somewhere you can find a seperate SAT breakdown for their engineering school that would support this.</p>

<p>And that's like asking why Wharton is the best business school in the ivy league. Just is.</p>

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<p>from what i've heard (it's probably wrong), cornell and brown are somewhat easier than the others. but they are terribly expensive :x</p>

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<p>whatever, if you want engineering don't go to cornell, take a look at MIT, UCLA or UC Berkeley. MIT has pretty much the best engineering programs in the world with the exception of civil engineering, which goes to Berkeley (go figure, California = earthquakes). Hell ever heard of Unix BSD? BSD= Berkeley Software Distribution . Don't go someone just because it's the "Ivy League", go somewhere because it kicks ass at what you want to do.</p>

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<p>I hate how this thread continues to appear despite the astute poster's attempts to settle it. </p>

<p>Look people, college acceptance rates in the ** top-ranked, most selective ** universities have little statistical significance. </p>

<p>As I said in another post:</p>

<p>"The acceptance rate is due to the admissions committee of a university selecting the number of students that it did from the applicant pool in a given year, it is ** it does not completely result ** of the school having standards that make it more "selective" than any other institution. Thus, the so-called selectivity of Princeton, Harvard, and Yale are not statistically significant, because one of the major components of selectivity depends on the ** size of the applicant pool vs. the number of given spaces available in the freshman class *. If significantly less students (5% decrease) decided to apply to Harvard one year for some unknown reason, its acceptance rate will most likely increase. This does not mean that the next year the case will be the same. I would argue that the fluctuations in the admit rates between Harvard, Yale, and Princeton make their admit rates, and their selectivity, practically the same. The same goes with SAT scores. If Harvard decides to accept more kids that do not have the top range SAT scores but rather for other * extremely valid reasons **, its average and mid-50% SAT range may fall. However, the credentials of these students may have other factors you are not considering, and it in no way means suddenly it is easier to get admitted at Harvard."</p>

<p>This is why discussions like this are not meaningful.</p>

<p>In reality, the selectivity of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and other comparable schools will be ** practically identical **.</p>

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<p>As an additional point, even if Harvard's applicant pool shrinks by 5%, there are still enough applicants to fill 4 or 5 individual freshman classes, so the shrinking applicant pool in itself does not mean its significantly easier to gain admission either.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Which IVY is the easiest to get in to?

[/quote]

Poison ivy, unfortunately. Not only is it easy to get in, it's hard to get off.</p>

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<p>Kemet, thank you for making my day.</p>

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<p>Since the subject is the Ivy League, I don't think my next question about my older sister will be too off topic. Someone at her school has already been accepted into Princeton (he's an athlete), so does this affect her chances of being admitted into Harvard or another Ivy? I ask this because she was deferred ED for Harvard and she also applied to UPenn and Columbia. Her high school is a public school without a notable history of Ivy matriculation (the most prestigious colleges from last year were along the lines of Duke and Vanderbuilt).</p>

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<p>It is not the number of apps that makes for selectivity, it is the number of quality apps that is important (as we all know, many schools attract a high number of unqualified or "junk" apps, whether through heavy marketing or brand attraction). This was addressed by the Princeton Review in their ranking of the "Toughest Schools To Get Into" Ranking.</p>

<p><a href="http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/college/Default.aspx?article=10schoolsToughesttoGetInto07%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/college/Default.aspx?article=10schoolsToughesttoGetInto07&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here is a listing of the top "20 Toughest Schools To Get Into"</p>

<p>here's the complete list of the top 20.</p>

<p>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2 Princeton University
3 Harvard College
4 Brown University
5 Yale University
6 California Institute of Technology
7 Stanford University
8 Washington University in St. Louis
9 University of Pennsylvania
10 Columbia University--Columbia College
11 Duke University
12 Williams College
13 Pomona College
14 Middlebury College
15 Swarthmore College
16 Georgetown University
17 Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering
18 Amherst College
19 Dartmouth College
20 Haverford College</p>

<p>Here is the PR formula/methodology</p>

<p>"Admissions Selectivity Rating
This rating measures how competitive admissions are at the school. This rating is determined by several institutionally-reported factors, including: the class rank, average standardized test scores, and average high school GPA of entering freshmen; the percentage of students who hail from out-of-state; and the percentage of applicants accepted. By incorporating all these factors, our Admissions Selectivity Rating adjusts for "self-selecting" applicant pools. University of Chicago, for example, has a very high rating, even though it admits a surprisingly large proportion of its applicants. Chicago's applicant pool is self-selecting; that is, nearly all the school's applicants are exceptional students. This rating is given on a scale of 60-99. Please note that if a school has an Admissions Selectivity Rating of 60*, it means that the school did not report to us all of the statistics that go into the rating by our deadline."</p>

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<p>It depends on the program...overall uPenn does have that 27%ish rate, however if u are applying to Wharton, it is more like 12-14% (estimate)</p>

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<p>For USNWR, the Selectivity ranking is weighted at 15% of the total score calculated for the determination of USNWR ranks. </p>

<p>More detail on the USNWR Selectivity rankings:
Three factors underlie this ranking.<br>
1. SAT/ACT scores of ENROLLED students (50% of score)
2. % of students who rank in the top 10% and then a second level of analysis for students who rank in the top 25% (40% of score)
3. Total Admittance Rate (10%)</p>

<p>Given the amount of comment on CC about rates of admissions, it might surprise some readers to learn that this number is only 10% of the Selectivity rank and thus only 1.5% of the total USNWR score.</p>

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<p>Just a note from inside the admissions office of one of the most selective colleges/universities in the country...</p>

<p>You cannot predict these things...I have seen kids this year who I loved and pushed hard for and NEVER thought my colleagues and dean would go for - and they're in! I've recommended deny on kids that I thought for sure my dean and colleagues would think I was crazy for denying - and no one said a word. This happens every year and I'm always surprised (not sure why though) but it reaffirms my belief that you just cannot predict these decisions, ever. Even looking at admit rates, it's really hard to say "it's easier to get in to school x over school y" because we look for different things in different years. </p>

<p>IMO, however, there are some general comments I'd like to make...Chicago is such an aberration to this conversation. Their applicant pool is extremely self-selective...their 40% admit rate makes sense, and I would bet that if Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, and Princeton all had self-selective pools instead of kids just applying because of the prestige, their admit rates would also be much higher. Duke, Davidson, WashU, Vanderbilt, Emory, Tufts, and some other schools' admit rates are also very vague...because of geography. Kids applying to Duke, Davidson, Vandy and Emory from outside the South, for example, are going to have an easier time getting a bump in their chances because these schools are looking to diversify their student bodies geographically. Some of these schools (namely Emory) also take into account demonstrated interest - meaning they consider whether or not you have visited or interviewed into account when making decisions. Also, WashU has, in the past, been notorious for denying or waitlisting kids who are super strong but who they know will not enroll because they will have offers from the Ivies and others. Tufts looks "easier" with its 28% admit rate, but if you're from New England or the mid-Atlantic, the admit rate is very, very low because of the concentration of apps they get from these areas. </p>

<p>Brown is a weird one...every year I talk to counselors who mention that they haven't seen a kid get into Brown for years, and then suddenly, almost randomly, a kid gets in. I think Brown is one of the most selective in the country...they don't seem to have the development issues places like Duke and Princeton and others do, and they don't really seem to be obsessed with keeping their middle-50% SAT range over 1300 (old test) and 1500 like others. Someone mentioned that Brown looks for super strong science kids, and I don't think that's accurate at all, btw...</p>

<p>I do think that Yale, Harvard, and Princeton are flooded with what someone earlier called "junk" applications, but keep in mind this is all relative...those junk applications are still strong kids who, while probably not competitive for admission to these schools, could still probably get into 90% of the colleges and universities in this country (remember, only about 40-50 schools nationally have admit rates under 30% - and there are over 2500 4-year schools in this country!)</p>

<p>As far as the discussion about Cornell...their engineering program is top notch...I do think that Princeton, Brown (the oldest undergrad engineering program in the country) Penn, and Columbia give it a run for its money, but Cornell is very, very strong in this area. However, Cornell is very strong in other areas as well...however, places like Cornell, Penn, Columbia, Harvard, and Yale really do best at the graduate level in terms of the quality of education they put out. This is not to say that these schools aren't good for undergrads, because they certainly are. However, these schools have very large graduate programs - and these programs get the bulk of the resources (faculty, funding, etc...) at these schools. Princeton, Brown, and Dartmouth are more the "undergraduate" schools of the Ivy League and undergraduates at these schools have very different experiences than do their peers at the other Ivies. </p>

<p>What is really interesting to me is looking at the LAC's and their changing admit rates. Wow! Did you see Amherst, Williams, and Pomona's stats from last year?
Just a few thoughts for you to consider...</p>

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<p>True that. The top LAC's are getting wildly selective. In the past couple years the kids at my school, a comp. private school in the midwest, have had better luck at Cornell, Penn, and Northwestern than they have at Williams and Amherst. I think if you're not applying for engineering, Cornell is the easiest. Chicago's pool is so self-selective because of the legendarily tough workload that has a reputation for harming campus life. I think that CCers really overrate Rice. Rice is more selective than it deserves to be in my mind...</p>

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<p>Rice is an excellent school...</p>

<p>Anyway, I think it will be interesting in the next few years to see how Princeton does, now that they have dropped early decision...this is a school that has traditionally taken around 50% of its class via ED...I wouldn't be surprised to see the admit rate double...or they could just do what Yale did this year, which was to take 100+ kids off the waitlist because they were way to selective. </p>

<p>What will also be interesting in the next few years will be to see how colleges respond to the drop in the number of high school graduates that's coming. Right now, we're experiencing the largest graduating classes we've seen in years...in a few years, though, the population of college-aged kids is going to drop (just the demographics) and most of us in admissions are <em>assuming</em> that we're going to see a drop in the number of applications to our schools. Of course, with more and more students applying to an insane number of schools, who knows...</p>

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<p>Cstixj, i was just admitted to washu and from looking at that list, it would seem that i'd easily make it in to dartmouth and even columbia. i certainly wish thats the way the college admissions world works!!!</p>