“And furthermore, my previous threads are not related to this one, so please do not bring them up, as they are irrelevant.”
Of course they aren’t irrelevant.
Ha, what’s “harsh treatment?”
My point is simply that student leadership positions extend beyond student government - so “paraphrasing” my words which were “influential student leadership positions” to be referring exclusively to student government is inaccurate.
Also, I never said they won’t be able to join more than one organization - not sure where you are getting that from.
I am saying they will find little support, will have difficulty finding like-minded peers, and likely face a degree of social ostracization that their liberal peers do not face.
Notice I never deal with absolutes in my language. I did not say it is IMPOSSIBLE to find like-minded peers. Social life for a conservative student will be more difficult than social life for a liberal student at Brown, ceteris paribus. This is what @monkey2001 wants to know.
I’d agree with Dartmouth, stereotype or not, the conservative edge brings a little “resistance” to the growing liberal ideologies of college students.
Can you give a concrete example of what you’re talking about? Mutatis mutandis.
You are very unlikely to be ‘subject’ to ‘unfair or harsh treatment’ at any of those schools, and you will absolutely find plenty of fellow travelers at all of them (even Vassar- like Brown, seen as way off the deep end of liberal- has an active Young Republicans club, and their members are not subject to ‘unfair or harsh treatment’).
What most of the posters who are throwing around specific schools are doing is indicating which ones they think are likely to have a higher % of fellow travelers for you. IMO, that is putting the cart before the horse.
As another poster upthread mentioned, there are bigger differentiators between the schools than the relative % of students whose politics would be described as ‘conservative’. As you learn more about each school you will be drawn to some programs more than others. As a philosophy-math person you might be drawn to Columbia’s legendary ‘core curriculum’- or you might be repelled by the restrictions it places on your academic choices. Dartmouth’s fratty, outdoorsy small-town life could appeal or appall. And so on. Do more homework on the individual schools, and see how they fit you as a whole.
Finally, look at your use of language: do you really believe that at the top tier of universities, students are treated harshly or unfairly- for any reason? what is your information source for that belief? Some critical thinking is needed here, and is good preparation for studying philosophy.
I am not sure about that. Even at my school, which is more moderate than Brown, I feel many conservatives are subjected to “unfair or harsh treatment” by their more liberal peers. They are way too easily called “racists” or “classists” or whatever. I am a huge social justice advocate, but many people are ruining the optics of the movement by using such strong language without true reason.
Here’s an example:
Being a Donald Trump voter does not necessarily make you racist (although Donald Trump himself is racist). But a person wearing Donald Trump apparel will be called out as a racist at my school and at many other schools.
Being a Richard Spencer or David Duke supporter, on the other hand, makes you a racist.
Richard Spencer/David Duke are not at the same level as Donald Trump. Moral absolutism is ruining the left, and it is frustrating to watch that happen as a liberal.
Scratch Duke off the moderate list.
They have hired Ivy administrators and Ivy department chairs for decades.
Maybe not the best example. Racism should be seen as a moral absolute, IMO. I can’t think of contextual scenarios where it is okay. So, using your example, if you support racists, you are supporting racism.
This thread is starting to get political.
“I am saying they will find little support, will have difficulty finding like-minded peers, and likely face a degree of social ostracization that their liberal peers do not face.”
See, some of us do read the absolutes in comments like this, and those before it. “They will…” It’s not muted by “likely.”
Plus the thread insistence, from some, that one or two schools can be named “worst” and others are safer.
In every top college context, there are various types, including plenty of students who avoid conflict not essential to their work, ECs or play. Their focus is elsewhere, they don’t necessarily wear their own sociopolitical, economic, or other stands on their backs.
OP, over the next year, can explore opportunities to interact with like-minded peers. Activities, clubs, academically centered groups, community work, pre-professional experiences, etc. Life on campus is not all about outing another’s stands and arguing, pointing fingers.
I guess I am pretty comfortable with that one absolute in my statement.
I standby my statement and refuse to ignore the obvious implications of being a conservative student at a school like Brown.
I disagree. Someone can support Donald Trump for the promises he made about bringing back industrial and manufacturing jobs. That person is not neccessarily a racist IMO.
I think recognizing where people are coming from instead of immediately namecalling can do wonders. I voted for Clinton (who is not clean on the whole not being a racist thing either), but I understand why some people voted for Trump.
If we go by the moral absolutism approach, then Clinton voters are also racist (remember what she said about urban culture back in the day)?
I’m questioning your assumptions and the many generalizations offered on this thread.
Put one way: do some really think the heads down lab rats, wannabe bankers, doctors, inventors, artists and performers, and more, who happen to hold some (or many) conservative views, are quaking in their boots? Not me.
Practically speaking, they dont have to interact with opposing ultra extremists. They can and do move on.
@yikesyikesyikes wrote:
That’s a wholly laudable sentiment. But, it’s not clear to me - as of this calendar date - who would be the “extremist”, using your example, the guy wearing a MAGA t-shirt or the person giving him the evil eye? I ride the NYC subways nearly every day and, believe me, a red baseball cap - ANY red baseball cap - garners all sorts of side glances. Does that make New Yorkers extremists or are they just being - human?
It’s not just giving them an “evil eye” - it is socially ostracizing them. It’s very different to get a few mean looks from some random people in the biggest city in the the United States than it is to be socially ostracized at an academic institution in which ideas ought to be debated by merits, not by namecalling and ad hominem attacks.
The extremist is the person engaging in the intimidating behavior - in some cases that is a liberal, in other cases it is the conservative. For Brown, it seems to largely come from the liberal side.
@yikesyikesyikes What are you defining as social ostracizing and intimidating behavior?
I see what you’re getting at I think, but I don’t think anything has gone wrong. In the case of Trump / MAGA gear, if people don’t want to be friends with you because of that, that is not unfair. They have no obligation to interact with you. If that means most of the campus won’t interact with you socially, I see nothing wrong with that. It is a choice that person made. What this highlights is that you want more conservative peers if you are a Trump supporter and do not like this outcome.
There’s a difference between people not wanting to interact with you and intimidating or unfair behavior. Was anyone spray painting Bernie graffiti on the doors of the individuals? Harassing them? You keep saying Brown was more hostile but are skating around examples. Can you provide a specific example of an interaction that was wrong, and how common it is?
@monkey2001 I think post #45 best addresses your question. The reason all this debate has followed your post is because the root of the question comes from a lot of controversy on media portrayal of colleges in terms of social / political environment.
I agree no one is obligated to be friends with anyone.
But shouting people down (for example, demonstrators yelling at and demeaning passerby for not participating in said demonstration), writing targeted op-eds in the campus newspaper, and informal “blacklisting” from student organizations (all of which I have seen to a degree, even at my school) are certainly “intimidating” behavior.
So there was a specific student targeted in the school newspaper?
I agree with the demonstration one for passerby’s, that is unacceptable. The blacklisting depends on the case, but generally also sounds unacceptable.
Appreciate the concrete example, thanks.
I think the Red BB cap in a NY subway gets the “evil eye” because they think it’s a Sox fan.