Hi! I’m a current senior deciding between a few schools with the intent to become a lawyer. I’ve been accepted to 6 ivies (except for Harvard and Yale, waitlisted) Hopkins, Vandy, UCB, and am currently learning towards Princeton. I’ve heard law schools filter by GPA, and though Princeton no longer deflates, it certainly doesn’t inflate like some other schools. If I’m aiming for HYS law schools (perhaps too ambitious lol), will having a lower gpa at Princeton hurt my chances? Below is the average LSATs and GPAs of each school.
The answer to your question is: Brown then Yale (as they have the highest mean GPA’s of the Ivies and nearly every other college).
If you are aiming for any law school, yes, a lower GPA will reduce your chances. Search for the top three and look up their average matriculated GPA’s. To have a chance for HLS f you are unhooked, you had better be above the means for both GPA and LSAT. If you want to get into SLS or YLS, need you need to be above both means and have outstanding/unique ECs. (YLS & SLS have small classes so are a lot more choosy than HLS.)
I haven’t performed any exhaustive analysis on the data in the linked document but I think I would try to construct some sort of index that relates LSAT to GPA to help me decide. Intuitively, LSAT is more a measure of the raw intelligence of the law school applicants from a particular undergrad institution, while GPA is likely more a reflection of the rigor of the grading system. Ideally you are looking for the lowest LSAT highest/GPA combination - that should be the school at which, given your innate aptitude for the LSAT, your GPA-LSAT combo should be highest.
I am guessing Brown would come out on top of the Ivies after such an analysis, for the combination of lenient grading plus fewer “superstar” sorts of students (I know I will get grief for this). Note that Columbia still offers an A+ in its grading system, which though difficult to achieve in most classes, can provide a nice GPA boost for kids eyeing the top of the T14 law school food chain. I think I’d lean towards Brown or Columbia, if those are both options. Good luck!
If you believe some commentators, everybody in the Ivy League has grade inflation:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlindsay/2019/03/30/the-other-college-scandal-grade-inflation-has-turned-transcripts-into-monopoly-money/#515b91a24182
It’s pretty hard, if not impossible, to find current accurate data for your question.
Generally, law schools screen through GPA/LSAT. Students generally do better in their classes when they are at a school they want to be at-so of the list, which school has the best “fit” for you?
gotta agree with the last post- the best Ivy for pre-law is the one where you want to be. And if that is Vandy or UCB or Hopkins then that’s fine too.
Do not give up a Princeton education over worry about cumulative GPA. Princeton’s mean LSAT score (166.10), which is the third highest behind Yale & Harvard, more than compensates for its 3.55 GPA as one’s LSAT score is more important than an applicant’s GPA in elite law school admissions.
Targeting Yale Law & Stanford Law is unreasonable as they are small law schools with unusually selective admissions criteria.
While Harvard Law is attainable with above median numbers, Columbia, Penn, Chicago & NYU law schools can get you wherever you want to go with a law degree.
Focus on the top 14 law schools which, in addition to the above 7 law schools, include Northwestern, Berkeley, Duke, Cornell, Michigan, Virginia, & Georgetown.
As does Cornell.
Does this mean that Harvard and Yale implicitly offer better preparation for the LSAT for their students? I don’t think so.
I am of the strong belief that when we are talking about any of the, say, T50 or even T100 schools, the education received by a law school aspirant will have basically no effect on her LSAT score. Differences in average scores among undergrad schools at these levels simply reflect different average abilities of the school cohorts taking the test. These different abilities were present when the students entered college - we are not talking about 6-year olds here entering grade school or even 14-year olds entering high school.
This of course does not mean that one’s undergraduate education is irrelevant to preparation for law school. Probably nothing beats a few years in an intense academic environment to hone skills in analysis, logic and rhetoric. Nevertheless, one can find that at any of the schools OP is talking about, and plenty more besides.
I still say that in this rarefied air, choose the one with the most lenient grading system, and that the LSAT scores reflect more the intrinsic ability of the students you will be competing against there. Of course make sure that the fit is good as well, although again in this rarefied air I believe most student can find their fits in most places. Just my two cents.
Agree that a student can find a fit, but also recommend that no matter what college and the student’s academic course of study, a review course for the LSAT can make a world of difference in the student’s score.
Uh, no.
Sure, at most schools, LSAT is weighted a little more than GPA, but you need both scores to get above a law schools’ medians for a good chance of admission. A 173 will not “compensate for” a < 3.6 GPA. That same 173 and a 3.9 from any other Top 50 college would have a much greater chance of admission to say, HLS, than a 173/3.55.
If your academic skill in different subject areas is uneven, consider whether each college’s general education requirements could force you to take courses in areas where you are more likely to get grades lower than A.
Which Ivy is best for law school admissions?
The one that is such a great fit for you academically and socially that you end up thriving and doing your best work. In fact, you end up doing such good work, you not only earn perfect grades and accolades, but your professors rally behind you and write you the most effusive letters of recommendation possible. They may even push you to earn a Rhodes or Fulbright before applying to law school.
@bluebayou wrote:
“Sure, at most schools, LSAT is weighted a little more than GPA, but you need both scores to get above a law school’s medians for a good chance of admission.”
The above is stated in a poor fashion.
Applicants with both an LSAT score & a GPA above a particular law school’s medians will almost certainly receive an offer of admission (and, therefore, significantly above “a good chance of admission”.)
Also, law schools tend to give significantly more weight to one’s LSAT score than to one’s undergraduate GPA–especially for those applicants with several years of work experience.
@bluebayou: I think that you may be forgetting about the terms “splitter” and “reverse splitter”.
OP: In short, much better to have an above median LSAT score & a below median GPA than the opposite.
OP: My message to you remains: Do not give up the opportunity for an undergraduate education & degree from Princeton University because of fears of tough grading & its affect on law school admissions.
One’s LSAT score is much more important than one’s undergraduate GPA for law school admissions.
Also, just targeting the top 3 law schools (Harvard, Yale & Stanford) is foolish. Better to target the Top 14 law schools.
Entirely possible, but at least it is accurate, unlike your post which is just wrong.
To me, ‘almost certainly’ means a 90+% chance. But perhaps your definition is lower, as above both medians generally gives one a ~65% chance of an offer. (Above both 75th’s will almost certainly receive an offer at all but Yale and Stanford as they have such small classes that they can pick and choose.)
I think you are assuming facts not in evidence.
And Boalt fits in where?
I am not going to argue.
OP: Once again, do not forego a Princeton University education because you may earn a higher GPA elsewhere. You prefer Princeton & you were admitted to Princeton, therefore–if affordable–you should attend Princeton.
Please focus on the T-14 law schools, not just on the Top 3.
P.S. OP: Check out the law school admissions books on Amazon or at any bookstore. I think that you will find them to be helpful.