Which selective colleges do NOT require a supplemental application, ie just use the Common App?

Parents Forum
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<p>@blossom Thanks, all very good advice. I forgot about the Brown alumni counselor - did not use with other 3, but heard about it from fellow Brown alum, and will definitely use this resource. That is why I come to CC and not bother my son’s counselor incessantly.</p>

<p>I plan to have him in on the discussions about finances from day 1 (he already is…) and he knows that his input as to how good a fit a school is will be VERY impt as we figure this out. Once we go to some of these schools and he gathers more info, HE will be part of the process of saying that school “Y” is worth us borrowing 20K vs borrowing 40K. And as I have said, the EFC’s won’t work bc of husband’s business. I think by fall, he will be able to group schools into 3 grps: those that we would all be willing to scrape and borrow for the entire 40K per yr (after 15K from my employer and 5k Stafford), those that would need to give him about 15-20K for him to really want to go there, and those that would need to be almost full tuition to attract his attention. It is likely that schools that would give him full tuition for merit would have <60% of what he thinks he wants in a college, but I found with my 2 daughters, once they were looking at their real acceptances, their ability to navigate the decision process was much more focused and clear. He really is not the kind of kid to fall in love with one school. We went to Davidson, Emory and Vanderbilt and though very different, he could see himself at any of the 3.</p>

<p>The 18 schools idea was the advice we were given bc kids from his school with his stats apply to 10-12 mostly selective schools and we were told bc of the dis com thing, it will be very variable, down to the individual looking at his folder that day. If a college took a kid with a discom issue last year and there was a problem, that adcom is throwing those in the trash. If that adcom just scored another discom kid highly in the past week, he/she may pass him over. If an adcom knows his cc personally and trusts her that this kid is really a good kid, then that adcom may be ok with it. So though usually it does not improve one’s chances to apply to more of the same type schools, in this case, we were told that more IS better. Clearly, if he can find a safety that he likes that is EA or rolling, that is also a financial safety, it does make things better, but at this point, none of those seem to have even 50% of what he is looking for. State flagship is huge and in a cow pasture…</p>

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<p>I just read through this thread for the first time, and have a couple of minor comments. In general I think the advice has been very positive and helpful. I hope the OP thinks so as well.</p>

<p>@compmom -

Just to get this off the table in my mind at least, you are confusing, in your “limited memory”, a single event from a series of events. Simplest example is the coin flip. For the single instance of the next flip only, the odds of getting a heads is 50-50, even if the last 5 flips have all been tails. But the probability of getting a heads in the next 10 flips at least once is well over 99% (1023/1024 to be exact). Now this is different because it is a random event, while applying to colleges is not. If he applies to 8 schools and they are all Ivy like, his odds are lower than applying to 8 schools with fairly average selectivity. But as long as the 8 schools are within his stat range on average, the principle applies.</p>

<p>@barbfam1 - I feel pretty good that your son will not suffer from his one incident. It sounds to me like he has the support of the school and the details are definitely in his favor, so to speak. As you say, not attributing the Sparks Notes paragraph was a mistake, but one that most (not all, but definitely most) would look at as a relatively minor transgression given the complete record. If the GC does a good job supporting him in their statement to the schools to which he applies, he should be fine. The exception might be the schools that are super competitive, as someone else said. They only need the smallest thing to winnow the pool. But frankly his stats are borderline for those schools anyway. Not out of the question, but a pretty long reach. I think you are almost at a disadvantage having worked in admissions yourself, because you probably overanalyze it somewhat and think of the worst cases you have seen. That seems natural, but most likely not the reality most of the time.</p>

<p>I will only mention my alma mater and also University of Miami in passing, because they both have the major he wants with high quality research going on, and they are generous with merit aid, which I think he would get at Tulane at least, and very likely at Miami. But otherwise they don’t seem to meet what he is looking for, especially proximity obviously, so I mostly only bring it up because of the financial aspects. And the Tulane app is free and has minimal supplemental essays.</p>

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<p>@emilybee His discom issue will definitely be all over his application. It is one of the first questions on the common app AND his GC will address it in her letter. We are not looking to hide it. My original post was merely that after he works his butt off in August doing the first 12 apps with supplements, while working as a lifeguard and in his lab job, and playing water polo and studying for his Sept ACT’s and taking some driving lessons, and maybe squeezing in a college visit or two, I was hoping he would find some colleges that would meet about 75% of what he is looking for that also do not have a big supplemental application for schools #13-18 on his list. And if there are none, then he will just have to do more supplemental apps or apply to fewer than the 18 schools. He CAN take a few days off one week from work, but the rest of August is jam packed and preseason sports starts on Aug 21, so he will not have much time. </p>

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<p>Davidson, Vandy and Emory are greater than 4 hours from CT. </p>

<p>Davidson has a huge honor code…as you know. Just saying. And it is much smaller than your son’s target size. And there is no public transport between Davidson and Charlotte for those hospital experiences. As a rule, the school gives no merit aid (with the exception of some specific endowed scholarships…one for music, for example).</p>

<p>If you are looking at those schools, what about University of Richmond? What about smaller schools like Rhodes?</p>

<p>What about the schools in the consortium near Philly (Haverford, and the like)? </p>

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<p>You might want to back up a bit.</p>

<p>First priority is to find a safety that has a 100% chance of admission and 100% chance of affordability, and which is otherwise suitable for the student.</p>

<p>From what you described, the finances work out like this:</p>

<p>$15,000 benefit from your employer
$5,500 federal direct (Stafford) loan</p>

<h2>~$4,500 if he is also willing to work while in school</h2>

<p>$20,500 to $25,000 from the above</p>

<p>The big question is, how much more can be paid without parent loans or cosigned student loans?</p>

<p>The answer to that will determine what schools can be affordable safeties.</p>

<p>If you cannot afford any more than the numbers above, then look at <a href=“http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/”>http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/&lt;/a&gt; and perhaps your in-state public schools, and perhaps <a href=“VERY LOW COST OOS COA universities......less than $25k COA for everything! - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1651944-very-low-cost-oos-coa-universities-less-than-25k-coa-for-everything-p1.html&lt;/a&gt; .</p>

<p>Some students do use low cost open admission community college (and transfer later) as their safety. But that can be a let-down if they back into it in April, as opposed to planning on it beforehand.</p>

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<p>^ Does the 10-12 apps with supplements include several likely schools or are these schools all more/most selective? Imo, If his list doesn’t have several likely admits, it should. </p>

<p>I understand he has a busy schedule but if he wants to apply to 18 schools, he will just have to find the time. </p>

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<p>I truly appreciate everyone’s input. I am just very nervous about this right now and the one meeting with the GC back last April was helpful, but now that I have just a few days off myself this summer, I have to make some plans for college visits and want to be judicious about where we go. I work in an academic medical center and right now, with the new interns and residents, is our BUSY time! I have found CC extremely helpful and was really instrumental in guiding me to know that many students out there are very talented but have to consider cost (At my kids’ 37K/year prep school, most of their friends seem to not have to worry about that at all and are given a blank check when it comes to college…) So this has been very normalizing for me. And helpful in reducing my anxiety. I agree that his stats are not tippy top and Ivies etc were never on his list, except Brown as a far reach/third legacy bc it really hits all of his wishes. I have used the Naviance from our school and kids with his stats virtually all get into Colgate, Union, Hamilton and many get into georgetown, middlebury, brandeis, emory and some get into vandy, swat, tufts.</p>

<p>@‌thumper1 You are right about emory, vandy and davidson but emory and vandy hit everything except 4 hour mark. Davidson, though small, was appealing and near a small city and US air runs a bunch of flights per day to charlotte from our home airport and emory and vandy also easily accessible with many direct daily flights from our local airport. And we went to those first over his march spring break bc we were tired of SNOW. But DH has since weighed in and really thinks proximity is impt. </p>

<p>We are going to William and Mary and Univ of Richmond on July 20/21. And then Muhlenberg and possibly Lafayette on way home. Still more than 4h, but at least on AMTRAK route to New Haven. Haverford has no pool at all so that is a big negative. But I am from philly and both daughters looked at and got into Bryn Mawr so we even did second looks there. Hamilton is a good choice, and is on his list, with Colgate, but they are not in a small city. </p>

<p>Plans to do day trips hopefully to Vassar and to Wesleyan. Wes has good water polo and 30min from our house. The towns for both of these are a step up from a cow pasture in my son’s eyes, but maybe not by much! </p>

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<p>Would Eastern Connecticut State University be a suitable safety? It bills itself as a public LAC (as listed on <a href=“http://www.coplac.org”>http://www.coplac.org</a> ) with 4,500 undergraduates, and has an in-state list price that appears to be within your price range. Of course, academic offerings and whether the student is certain to be admitted need to be checked.</p>

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<p>“I have used the Naviance from our school and kids with his stats virtually all get into Colgate, Union, Hamilton and many get into georgetown, middlebury, brandeis, emory and some get into vandy, swat, tufts.”</p>

<p>Most of those schools including Wes and Vassar, are reaches for a kid with your son’s stats - with perhaps the exception of Union and Brandeis - which, imo, are targets - even without a suspension on his record. Not a one are likely. My son had very similar stats - a bit higher GPA and ACT score and his reaches were Bates and SUNY Binghamton. He also graduated from a prep school. </p>

<p>I find it extremely hard to believe that his GC’s would consider any of those schools likely admits for him. He needs likely schools! </p>

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<p>One thought: one of the Common App essay prompts is something to the effect of “describe a time that you failed, what you learned from it, etc., etc.” If your son chose to write about this incident in response to that prompt, that would allow him the opportunity to lend his own voice to this “failure” and talk about lessons learned, rather than just relying on his GC to speak for him. A good essay (on any topic) will paint a compelling picture for the reader. He could use the essay to draw the reader into his experience, let them feel what he felt at the time he made the choice to copy the SparkNotes. I am not suggesting that he excuse his behavior…that would be worse than the mistake itself! I’m simply saying that he could paint the picture, tell the story, bring the reader into his world at that moment. Then in his essay he’d need to own it and show that he has learned from it. If he is effective in conveying that he has learned from his mistake, maybe the Adcom will be left with the impression that they don’t have to worry about him making that mistake once he gets to campus. Kids make mistakes. Adcoms must know that. Better to learn from them in high school than in college, perhaps? Just a thought…</p>

<p>Hang in there, mom.</p>

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<p>@emilybee This particular school does really well with college admits. And my son did have a perfect 4.0 junior year there, while taking a decently hard level, including devising his own extra independent study course where he worked in a PTSD neuroscience lab, read books by PTSD sufferer’s and wrote a paper on the history of PTSD throughout the wars of america, while teaching himself AP psych (not offered at our school) - all in one semester in addition to his regular course load. His first attempt with a 32 ACT is not great, but was good for him. But since he has not cured cancer AND he had the discom, and there are a million other CT kids with good stats, I think we are eyes wide open. Out of my 4 kids, even without the discom, he is the weakest on paper, though really the nicest, most easy-going one. </p>

<p>I have his school newspaper from end of the year - they publish where all seniors will be going next year. Out of a class of 137, there are 29 going to Ivies (14 to Yale alone), 3 to MIT, 5 to JHU, 13 to NESCAC (Williams, Tufts, Hamilton, Vassar,Bowdoin, Union), 5 to U of Chicago, 5 to SWAT or Haverford, and most of the rest going to schools like BC, Oberlin, Gtown, Reed, Kenyon, NYU, CMU, Carelton, Claremont Mckenna, Vandy, Lehigh, Duke, Brandeis, Pitzer, Smith, WUSL, Colgate, Bryn Mawr, Bucknell, Fordham, UMICH, UC Berkely, Tulane. I went to a “famous” boarding school back in the late 70’s and even our college list did not look like this one. So, without the discom thing, plotting him on our school’s Naviance even with his 1st ACT would have put him well over target range for many of his schools (oxford at emory, colgate, wm and mary, hamilton, muhlenberg, lafayette, Richmond, brandeis) and he has a few reaches like vandy educ school, emory, maybe tufts or davidson and one super-reach, Brown as a legacy, and even that may depend on whether he can eek out a couple more points on ACT with some tutoring. He will have a safety or two, but if these feel too much like a bad fit, he can always work for a year or two and then reapply and I am not sure that would be so bad. I do trust the GC and she said that he should apply as usual to mostly schools in his target range, just more of them than his peers, bc some individual adcoms might not want to advocate for his app and we get that. She was not pushing him to add more reaches, which is fine and good advice that I have heard from multiple helpful CC’ers. </p>

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<p>I thought the grade on the plagiarized paper affected his English grade. Did he still get an A in that class? </p>

<p>Of course one NOT A isn’t anything to get all tied up in knots about.</p>

<p>The list of schools alums attend is impressive. But please, YOU need to be open minded and choose colleges using a blank slate. Don’t try to compare your son’s college choices to what are listed in the graduation programs. The schools have to be right for him. </p>

<p>As noted many times above…suggest that he find a true safety that has rolling or EA admissions. Get that acceptance early in the game. To be honest, I think THAT acceptance is more important that a potential rejection from Brown. If he applies to a rolling admission school, he could have an acceptance in the bag before Brown sends the ED decisions. </p>

<p>There are thousands of colleges…many with rolling or EA applications available. I find it hard to believe your son can’t find one to pique his interest. </p>

<p>I honestly believe getting an early acceptance will be very helpful in your son 's situation. </p>

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<p>“This particular school does really well with college admits.”</p>

<p>Yes, I know. I went there and get the alumni magazine.
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I’m am not going to argue with you. Good luck to your son. </p>

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<p>What about Quinnipiac? Conn College? Fairfield? Trinity? </p>

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<p>I have to disagree on writing an essay about the disciplinary matter. At least, I definitely would not make it his MAIN essay. That should be about something that presents the kid they want–for example, the psych-related activities you describe–not dwell on the negative. He can definitely write a short piece about the episode, and with tweaking use it as a “more information” piece on most apps.</p>

<p>BTW, If the kid has two good essays, they can be edited for use on virtually all apps. I really don’t think it is necessary to write major new essays for each school.</p>

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<p>University of Hartford is near all of the hospitals in the greater Hartford area. The school has rolling admissions starting at the end of September. It would be a safety for this student. </p>

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<p>Reusing your “Why College X?” essay can be tough… yes, there are things about YOU that make a college a fit that might stay in. But being quite specific about the college is going to get you a lot farther in the admissions cycle than something generic. And every essay does not fit every prompt…</p>

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<p>Just to put in my 2 cents…I don’t have any magic words of wisdom but I really feel for you and your son, barbfam1. Making a mistake with such potentially large consequences can be devastating; add the ‘felony’ stigma and it must be really rough.</p>

<p>I have two thoughts - first, it sounds like you live in Connecticut; if so U. Conn. has a very decent reputation and Honors Program. Even if his stats don’t at first look good enough to be admitted, the fact that he’s coming from a ‘good’ prep school may be enough to get him in - just make sure that fact is up-front and center so it won’t be lost. A number of students go to U. Conn from where I live (a nearby state) as it’s considered better than our flagship, and while it may be considered a step down at your son’s school (assuming it is) where I live, a middle to upper-middle class suburb, it’s considered a cause for congratulations.</p>

<p>Also someone mentioned U. of Alabama a couple of times - they have excellent automatic merit aid for OOS students and what looks to be an up-and-coming Honors Program as well. They are definitely making a push to improve scores/SATs/prestige by attracting smart but cash-poor kids with their merit aid, and it seems to be working.</p>

<p>A residential Honors Program - like 'Bama’s and I believe U. Conn - can do a lot to cut down the impersonal feeling of a large school.</p>

<p>IMHO they’re worth considering, at least as safeties/financial safeties.</p>

<p>It sounds like you’re doing a great job to contain and overcome the situation, and I wish you the best.</p>

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<p>@thumper1‌
Yes, he got an A for the year even in plagiarized class (B+ in fall term, as it was just one of MANY writing hw assignments they did and the 0 did not hurt him too much given that he got A’s on everything else. But did drop his term grade from solid A to B+). Second term, he got A’s and A+'s all term, so his year grade was an A. (different teacher 2nd term, but 1st term teacher was very fair and did not let the incident color her perception of him).</p>

<p>Univ of Hartford is a great idea for a safety so thanks for that idea. Quinnipiac is in the category that I can not afford full tuition and it does not have enough positives from HIS POV to warrant me borrowing 40K/yr (no pool, 20 min from home, lots of very rich kids, and virtually no FA/merit aid). His lab is actually at QU so he goes there almost every day - I was there 2x today! Beautiful campus, but historically very low admit rates to PhD and md grad schools. And nothing to do on campus as it is located in sleepy suburb. Conn college is a possibility - he knows swimmers who have gone there and loved it. Best friend’s son went to Trinity and transferred out after a year - I know fit may make it good for one kid and bad for another. Fairfield is a good probable safety, but I do not know much about their merit aid, if any. And catholic college not a draw for him. We do have our work cut out for us…I agree with commenter that finding a really good safety is paramount bc then the pressure is off. But, we all agree if that does not happen, he can work for a friend’s hedge fund, get his EMT, etc for a year or 2 and then apply. My 3 other kids did gap years, though they all got in first and then requested their gap year. Best safety plan if he likes W and M is to go to the nearby com college that guarantees admit and ez transfer to W and M if grades decent. Added plus is that his much beloved older sis lives there now while BF is in law school there. </p>

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<p>Don’t discount those Catholic colleges. The only thing is they usually have strict honor codes. But moth have an abundance of students from all faiths. My own DD went to a Jesuit undergrad school. Yes, there was a course requirement for religion, but her school had 150 choices…and she loved her religion courses which included ethics, and women in religion, and the like.</p>

<p>So, having said that…I know this was suggested upstream…what about Fordham? Another thought is Marist. It started off as a catholic college but is not so anymore. It fits your son’s size and location requirements.</p>

<p>Yes, Quinnipiac is in a suburb, but it is no less “isolated” than Davidson which is a trek from Charlotte especially without a car.</p>