which service academy is the most physically rigorous?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Merchant Marine Academy - Kings Point
1

<p>I've heard West Point has the most rigorous summer military training(beast) and plebe year.</p>

<p>While, Kings Point is the easiest, 2 week indoc. </p>

<p>Airforce remains almost as rigorous as Annapolis and CGA. is this true?</p>

<p>I know in order to serve country, you have to be physically in shape.</p>

<p>However, I am afraid that I may not be physically tough enough.</p>

<p>I still want to serve country in the least physically demanding but most academically demanding academy.. </p>

<p>Any idea or thought?</p>

2

<p>first off,
that’s a bad attitude to have. as i’ve said before. the academy experience (or i’d say any service experience in this country) cannot be segregated into physical, academic, or other categories. they all mesh.
if you want to test your physical limits, spend a night working on sea projects when you’re so exhausted that you can hardly stand. if you want to test your mental limits, train for a marathon. </p>

<p>i’m by no means a jock. far from it. but i can say that if you want to go to an academy, they will force you to become stronger. it’s about the whole person man.
if you doubt yourself, then you’re probably going to have a hard time. the academy experience is about accepting your shortcomings and then DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THEM. if you feel like you’re not physically tough enough for the academy, then hit the gym. problem solved just that easily. </p>

<p>if i can make it through this place you can make it through this place, just keep trucking and fix your problems when you recognize them. failing to fix your issues in one area is going to make you less likely to fix issues in another area. apathy is like cancer–it spreads until it’s completely enveloped you. i unfortunately know this all too well myself.</p>

3

<p>is2day4him hit the nail on the head.</p>

4

<p>If you want to go to an academy for the pure purpose of “toughening up”
Go to The Citadel, VMI, or Norwich.</p>

<p>Seriously. Don’t waste your time with any one of the federal academies because your priorities or too messed up. </p>

<p>Plus they are much tougher than any one of the federal academies which are hamstrung by anti-hazing laws and the such which get played out way to much.</p>

5

<p>Kings Point is becoming a joke, i haven’t seen a plebe do a push up since before Thanks Giving. Apparently giving someone Incentive Training has become “hazing” so now there is no enforcement of class rates and the plebes pretty much do whatever they want. I would say Kings Point is by far the easiest, INDOC has become a glorified summer camp and now the only struggle plebe year is academics. Plebe year should weed out the people that can’t hack it and now with no stress other than academic there are quite a few people here that simple should not be.</p>

6

<p>I find the comments by some of the current upper classman (k314sig09 and eatsleepsail) on this thread pretty humorous. Personnaly I’m very glad to see IT go by the wayside, furthermore as of this fall KP was the only Academy still using IT and speaking as a graduate my opinion is it should have been stopped several years ago as it was at the Military Academies.</p>

<p>It’s not a good way to train military officers and it’s an even worse way to train and instill leadership at a service academy whose primary purpose is to produce leaders for the maritime and inter-modal transportation industries. IT at an Academy is about as outdated and inneffective a teaching tool for preparing young men and women to be officers and leaders as it’s analogous tool is for training young children various desired behaviours - spanking. It’s nice to see Kings Point once again be able to emphasize the word Merhcant as much as the word Marine in the institution’s name - The United States Merchant Marine Academy. </p>

<p>Further, the tings you guys seem to be alluding to and even glorifying at places like the Citadel, VMI and Norwich are indeed hazing and as far as I know the only place that still comes close to even tolerating most of them is the Citadel. Second of all as Is2day states regardless of the physical rigor of the training program at any of the Federal Academies, the real “problem” with the initial question/post is it’ sentiment and the fact it entirely misses the point of why any of the Federal Academies exisit and what they strive to produce - leaders. The root material needed to become a leader is many things but what it is definately NOT is a desire to start out seeking the easiest path to a goal.</p>

7

<p>So you would rather see a plebe that blows off a single square get a Class 2 for failure to comply and spend 6 weeks on restriction than do some push-ups?</p>

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<p>@eatsleepsail: Short answer but of course not. The abuse and distortion of the use of “failure to comply” by certain members of the Commandant’s Staff needs to stop. Further, there are other NJP options for punishment of a Plebe or anyone else to maintain class rates. </p>

<p>Longer Answer: I’ll say it again - there are far better ways in my and others opinions to instill the right values and train leaders than IT, abusive/excessively “strigent” application of the regimental system, and screaming unitelligiable gibberish at people.</p>

<p>Not to sound like an old man here but “back in the day” we managed to handle all these sorts of things without either IT and to my knowledge I can’t recall anyone ever getting stuck for something as stupid, non-specific and ridiculous as “failure to comply” when there were and are so many other more appropriate Class III offenses that can and should be used.</p>

<p>Abuses and distortions of “Failure To Comply” like sticking someone for having numerous issues with the room during inspection with a “Failure To Comply” when the Class III Charge “Room In Gross Disrder” is so clearly the “right stick” for something like that or sticking them with 50 & 6 for “Failure To Comply” for blowing off a square is clearly abusive both of the rule and if you are the one issuing the charge your authority to enforce it. </p>

<p>“Failure To Comply” is meant to be and should be a serious charge reserved for flagrant, clear, direct disobedience of meaningful orders and important saftey procedures. From my personal perspective, I can’t imagine any case whatsoever where enforcement and compliance/non-compliance with any sort of Class Rates should result in the invocation of the “Failure To Comply” charge, certainly not without a case where it didn’t involve repeated “discussions” between the two individuals and repeated non-compliance by the Plebe after the Officer conseled him/her and had issued other relevant Class III Offenses in prior dealings to no avail.</p>

<p>Of course if you want to fashion yourself after the “leadership” example of Douglous C. Niedermeyer from the movie “Animal House” and use your time at USMMA to practice such skills and methods then please disregard this and pretty much anything else I say on this or similar foroums. It is after all the USA and we do both have the right to agree to disagree.</p>

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<p>So, if IT has been banned at USMMA, could someone explain why the plebes of DS’ company were IT’d not once, but twice, between the hours of 0500 and 1200 on Feb. 20, 2010??? Either IT is permitted or it is not, so what gives???</p>

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<p>gmankiw, back to your point about whether USMMA is more or less physically rigorous than West Point or the other service academies, there is nothing wrong with your question. Socrates said, “Know thyself.” All the service academies give the impression in their literature and on their websites of being physically rigorous. Indeed, they ARE physically rigorous. This physically demanding impression is both an attraction to applicants who want to be the best of the best, but also daunting to an applicant who is not yet at that level of physical fitness. It is not just IT that makes Kings Point physically rigorous, but the Physical Readiness Test (PRT) you must take each trimester. All of the academies have the equivalent of KP’s test. Although the PRT requirements seem intimidating when you have not yet achieved them, virtually anyone, including you, can accomplish them with practice. Pages 28-30 of the following USMMA link describe how to gradually build up. <a href=“http://www.usmma.edu/admissions/PDFs/LoggingIn2013.pdf[/url]”>http://www.usmma.edu/admissions/PDFs/LoggingIn2013.pdf&lt;/a&gt; In a nutshell each of the requirements involve repetitions interspersed with periods of active rest. In addition to the PRT, you will be taking a PE course each trimester. Ditto other academies. These courses are designed to introduce you to some sports and fitness disciplines that will equip you with the tools to stay fit long after you graduate. All of these are achievable. When you graduate from a service academy, you will know that you have physically accomplished much more than most of your contemporaries at other colleges and universities. On balance, all of the academies are physically rigorous, but none more physically demanding than the other including KP, in my opinion. Just remember, academics are very challenging at each academy and must receive your very best effort in order to graduate.</p>

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<p>I dont know, but I’d call your congressman and the president to complain about it</p>

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<p>09: hahahaha ;)</p>

<p>Guy: Did you ask your DS? If so, what did he report … .after all the moaning and groaning, etc. Stuff doesn’t just come out of the blue, usually.</p>

<p>Also, within a short time, DS is going to be on a ship somewhere. The engine is going to stop… for any number of reasons. DS will have just gotten to sleep, after working his 1 1/2 shifts, and on his sea project. The ship will get very quiet and still… a VERY bad sign if you are an engineer. DS and everyone else will have to do whatever it takes to get back underway … even if that means working another 24 hrs straight. He may have to work double shifts for the next 5 weeks, until the ship offloads the contaminated fuel that started the problems. (it happened to mine). Deckies have their own set of challenges.</p>

<p>This is going to be physically taxing… an endurance marathon at times.
DS should do whatever it takes to be ready for it.
Some of this stuff is surprisingly hard.</p>

<p>He will likely look back fondly at KP at that point, and smile about the significance he once attached to such things.</p>

<p>On your question, i don’t know what to tell you.
Except… pace yourself.<br>
There are MUCH bigger hills and valleys on the USMMA roller coaster. :slight_smile: Wheee! Remember to breathe.</p>

<p>BTW, you will be amazed at the transformation after DS’s 1st sea term. And utterly astounded at the professionalism and responsibility changes going into and coming out of the 2nd sea term.
If you think you are proud of them now, just WAIT to see how they come back, especially when compared against the growth of the regular college kids.</p>

13

<p>Uncharacteristically, I’m going to attempt to get this thread back on topic. The original question from gmankiw was "which service academy is the most physically rigorous? "</p>

<p>is2day4him gave an on topic response which I think went to the real point, and after that others, myself included begin to stray quite far from the topic so I’d like to bring it back and respond more directly to gmankiw’s points and underlying questions.</p>

<p>"I’ve heard West Point has the most rigorous summer military training(beast) and plebe year. While, Kings Point is the easiest, 2 week indoc. Airforce remains almost as rigorous as Annapolis and CGA. is this true?</p>

<p>"I know in order to serve country, you have to be physically in shape. However, I am afraid that I may not be physically tough enough. I still want to serve country in the least physically demanding but most academically demanding academy…

  • Any idea or thought?"</p>

<p>Each Federal Academy is both physically and mentally demanding in it’s own way and uniquely in ways that are driven by the overall program (regimental, academic, and extra-curricular) they run which to a fair degree is very influenced by the life and career which they are preparing you for. Each of those “primary” careers is different and career service members each will joke and have at times gallows humour which doesn’t translate well outside the individual services or in the case of KP - the maritime industry but is reflective of the hardships a successful, long career in them entails. All that said, personally I feel at the end of the day the physical training program at all the Academies is and needs to be for the successful attendee - the easy part. It’s really just a means to an end and the end is it’s all just a way to drive you to mentally condition yourself to block out distractions including pain from physical rigor, and maintain the calm and rationale mental attitude to lead in the face of adversity - even extreme adversity. Further, the inital reporting/training period be it “beast” or KP’s two week indoctrination is just the the beginning of an intense first year program in all 5 Academies programs. KP only has a two week indoctrination because unlike the other schools it’s on an 11 month Academic Calander with three trimesters - each of which basically crams a 16 week Semester of work into 14 weeks, additionally even after Indoctrination - Plebe Candidates, Pleabe and 4th Classmen - in other words for your entire first year - 11 months - you have duties and responsibilities that first years at other Academies don’t have - for example Cleaning Stations, etc. All of which means you are likely to find yourself at least once during a regimental training period after you’ve stood watch and not gotten much, if any sleep for 24+ hours being physically challenged. The point is is2day4him hit the nail on the head - if before you even show up - you are looking for - the easiest way to serve your country you’re in for a very long haul regardless of which of the 5 Academies you choose. Further I wouldn’t bet on you making it through unless you have some sort of “aha” moment, “put on your big boy pants” and like Nike says “just do it” or if you pick KP adopt the school motto “acta non verba.”</p>

<p>It’s now March, if you are going to one of the five service academies this summer, you’vve got time, get off the couch and get into shape, you’ve got plenty of time. Either way, if you do or don’t it won’t matter which one you poick, you will likely be challenged more than you are used to at this point of your life. If you decide to “just do it” and work at it, you’ll probably get through successfully, though if you show up in shape, your life will be a lot easier and the odds of that a lot higher. All that said your attitude and internal mental drive will be even more important to your odds of success.</p>

<p>Those are my thoughts. Good Luck!</p>