<p>No child left behind will be accomplished when no child moves forward. Why not have one national series of tests every three years? Like most simple solutions to complex problems, No Child Left Behind does not work. There is no comparison between the schools in one state to the schools in another. The state with the lowest standard wins.</p>
<p>Tennessee is absurd in its testing. In the high school, kids must pass one in algebra, biology and English (the equivalent of English II) to graduate. On top of that there are standardized end of course tests in physical science, history, English I, and pre-algebra (they call it Math Foundations II). We will be doing field testing for two or three more subject areas next year! It is crazy-making. The tests count at least 15% of the student's grade for the term, along with being, in some cases, required for graduation.</p>
<p>Working in a junior high this year during TAKS was quite an eye-opener. First, everyone (teachers and staff - which includes the receptionist!)are required to take a training on test day procedures. Arrangements must be made for accomodations for the special ed, ESL and 504 students. We have hall monitors during testing (since all of our teachers are proctoring, administrators from the school district are brought in). At times the PTA has provided breakfast for all the students, other times they provide mints (to increase "brian power"). The attendance clerk calls all parents of absent students to verify the absence. </p>
<p>In the aftermath, if a student fails either math or reading, they are placed in a remedial class (to take the place of an elective) to bring them up to speed. This year, students who achieved commended performance received an ice cream cone (courtesy of the PTA). </p>
<p>Testing is an unbelievably time-consuming process. Out of our 180 required days of instruction, at least 5 are devoted to testing.</p>
<p>GEORGIA....after georgia placed 49/50 (we're only losing to alabama, but we'll catch up to them soon enough) in education in the united states...the state leg. decided to give us an insane number of ridiculously easy standardized tests. But the problem is that these tests are 3 hours long. 3 Hours of questions i could answer without taking the class, but the good part is that these tests count as our exam grade. Heres the kicker. For my AP Bio and AP Lit class we took the same standardized test, given by the state, as the kids who took normal bio and lit, meaning we took the same test as the freshmen (i am a junior). STUPIDITY! Though it boosted my grade in those classes it proved to me how far i need to get away from this moronic state. Keep your kids away..for the love of god.</p>
<p>I am a student in Massachusetts and there's a reason why the greater Boston area has such a large population. The public schools around here are fabulous. The MCAS test consumes 1 week at end of sophomore year, but I have never had a teacher who taught to it. The MCAS system is neither oppressive nor does it really interfere with the education.</p>
<p>Standardized testing is just one facet of school. For you to decide to not live in a particular state due to its testing requirements is absurd.</p>
<p>In VA, you take tests in [7th, 8th,] 9th, 10th, and 11th grade, in... algebra, geometry, algebra 2, bio, chem, 2 english, world history I (but not if you're on IB track), world history 2, US History. I think that's all of them, and you don't even have to pass them all. The tests are ridiculously easy, at least they were for me, and frankly, if you can't pass these tests, you should not be getting a high school diploma.</p>
<p>I took the US History one, and my Jr year class was "History of the Americas"... half the class was spent on Latin America, and half was spent on the US. And I managed to get the higher of the 2 passing marks on all of the tests, except for one.</p>
<p>my 2 favorite questions from my English SOL (VA):
1. there were like 12/14 sentences divided into 4 paragraphs about a job. Then the question asks "Which paragraph is the phone number in to call for more information?"</p>
<ol>
<li> Which of the following is written correctly?
a. economix
b. econimics
c. economics
d. ecconomiccs</li>
</ol>
<p>... seriously, these tests are untimed, but they mandated that everyone stay for like an hour and a half or 2 hours, and then they took people who weren't finished to another place. It took me like 15 minutes to answer the 70 English questions, it was ridiculous.</p>
<p>SOLs were never mentioned in my classes (all preIB/IB classes) until like the week before, if we had to touch on something that we weren't learning for IB. Like in History, we had to touch a couple things that we wouldn't have otherwise, as the class was heavily focused on Latin America, and started with the age of exploration, and the class finished at 1900, so anything on the test on the 20th century we tried to briefly touch, and it was left up to us.</p>
<p>Again... you list Virginia, but if the SOLs keep your kids from graduating, you have bigger problems.</p>
<p>
Massachusetts has the highest SAT scores of any state, indicated by the highest SAT score required for National Merit Scholars of any state. I'm not arguing that this is a result of MCAS or not, but if MA is "dumbed down" where does that leave every other state?</p>
<p> [quote=tabbyzmom] ...testing discriminates against learning disabled students. ... NOT EVERYONE IS A SUPERB TEST TAKER.
Amen to that. This also applies to the SAT.</p>
<p>You want a state that revolves around testing? Come to Florida.
I could not wait to take that godforsaken test for the last and final time in 10th grade. My English II/Chem classes revolved it until March, but my Algebra II teacher said screw FCAT and didn't pay much attention to it. It is a waste of time. We have some classtime dedicated to practicing getting to our assigned rooms! :eek: Oh well. I'm off to college so I'll never have to hear 'FCAT' ever again! Yippee!</p>
<p>I guess I don't understand the OP rationale. What is the alternative that they are proposing.</p>
<p>Many states rely on standardized testing as a way to measure progress of schools and the students that attend those schools. Schools that teach to the test choose to teach to the test. Most students should be able to pass these tests because they are minimums, not maximums. </p>
<p>I understand that some students are not good at taking tests or have learning disabilities. However, there needs to be some measure of progress. </p>
<p>At some point high stakes testing is required in the form of AP, SAT 1, SAT 2 and ACT tests. The college administrators like these because an excellent grade in one school does not equal an excellent grade in another. They would like to know that between 2 A math students which ones actually have an understanding of the material. Imagine the surprise of the A math student who gets a 500 on their SATs. </p>
<p>I believe that:</p>
<p>
[quote]
You get what you measure
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Without standardized testing you get nothing because nothing is measure. However, it does seem to me that we need to work a bit more on measuring the right things in order to accomplish the desired result.</p>
<p>< I guess I don't understand the OP rationale. What is the alternative that they are proposing. >
I got an education long before the proliferation of high-stakes testing. People did get educated back in the day. Beefing up the curriculum would help. Math education would be so much better if elementary school weren't such a joke. I was a top math student, but I didn't get algebra until 8th grade. I think I could have learned algebra as early as 4th grade if elementary school math didn't go back to 2+2=4 every year.</p>
<p>< Many states rely on standardized testing as a way to measure progress of schools and the students that attend those schools. >
When I was a K-12 student, the world didn't obsess about the scores as was the case today. Nobody was canned because scores fell short of expectations.</p>
<p>< Schools that teach to the test choose to teach to the test. >
THAT is dumbing down.</p>
<p>< At some point high stakes testing is required in the form of AP, SAT 1, SAT 2 and ACT tests. The college administrators like these because an excellent grade in one school does not equal an excellent grade in another. >
The SAT I and ACT are full of bull. At least diplomas and jobs aren't at stake. Can you imagine how flagrantly dumbed down high school would be if they taught to these tests?</p>
<p>AP and SAT 2 exams are better. At least these exams are based on the same subject matter as the curriculum, and learning clever tricks isn't as important. But high school shouldn't be taught according to even these more in-depth tests.</p>
<p>One of the biggest pet peeves of college professors is students who ask, "Will this be on the exam?" I can only imagined how annoyed the professors will be when it's their turn to teach students who have been pounded with high-stakes standardized testing all their lives.</p>
<p>Wow. The worst ever (IMHO as a student) is the all-time heavyweight punching-bag: KENTUCKY!!! My AP Chem teacher stopped teaching in JANUARY to prepare us for the Commonwealth Accountability Testing System in April, which is graded on a 140 point scale with, ahem, "fluid" rubrics, as far as I can tell. </p>
<p>Therefore, when all schoolsystems have to pass the 100/140 mark (yeah, we're dumb, so we have to have a base-10 goal) by 2014, there is nothing stopping them from just lowering the guidelines so everyone, indeed, is at 100%. </p>
<p>BTW, this test is ridiculously easy. But people in Kentucky still fail it miserably. So maybe we need it easy. But for god's sakes why not make it standardized, or at least comparable from year to year.</p>
<p>PS: To the OP: I'm sure you never considered it, but don't move to KY. And my family wonders why I want to go to boarding school........</p>
<p>In New York state, students must now pass five subject tests (biology, English, math, global studies and I can't remember the last one - if it were on a multiple choice exam, I could pick it out) spread throughout the high school years. It dominates everything in our school district.</p>
<p>Soozievt mentioned the portfolios used in Vermont. I believe that was enacted when Richard Mills was Vt. commissioner of education. Now he's NY state commissioner of education - devised our current testing requirements and is pushing to force the handful of exempt, alternative schools (that use a portfolio type evaluation) from the regents' exam requirements. Change of heart or change of boss? </p>
<p>I think that it has helped low performing schools, and yes, we need accountability. I think the effort, money and time spent on it does not justify the outcome for all schools. I hope that we've reached a plateau - we're fully into the testing regimen and maybe could reintroduce some things like reading for pleasure or encourage intellectual curiosity. Where do you find teachers who can stand to teach in a test-driven system yet retain the ability to be creative and insightful about their students?</p>
<p>jhsu,</p>
<p>My point is that the schools should not be teaching to the tests. However, the tests are there to measure a certain level of competence.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I got an education long before the proliferation of high-stakes testing. People did get educated back in the day. Beefing up the curriculum would help.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That is the same objective as the tests. I do not see how would you measure whether the new curriculum worked? What is the desired outcome?</p>
<p>IMHO as a student, too, don't EVER, EVER come to Indiana. The vast majority of teachers in my school system go absolutely berserk in the weeks leading up to the ISTEP+ and the CORE 40 exams (math, science, english credit depends on results). Furthermore, as incredibly easy as the ISTEP+ is, 43% of the sophomores who depend on the ISTEP+/GQE to graduate failed both math and english on the test this past year. Supposedly, students must pass the GQE in 10th grade (or keep trying 'til they do) in order to graduate, but now someone has come up with a waiver for the the kids who fail too many times. </p>
<p>The funny part is that thanks to our former governor Frank O'Bannon (may he rest/rot in peace), the state budget is so out of whack that they have cut funding to schools by as much as $200,000/school for the next school year. In one of the city high schools, they canned 20 teachers because there will be no money to pay them. We still spell words phonetically here, and nearly every pickup truck you see has a "Git 'er dun" bumper sticker on it. Forget the standardized testing; we were dumb enough to start out. The term "Brain-Drain State" was created in honor of us.</p>
<p>"I can only imagined how annoyed the professors will be when it's their turn to teach students who have been pounded with high-stakes standardized testing all their lives." </p>
<p>Haha...they may have to form a support group with the humble secondary school teachers who hear that question everyday.</p>