<p>I can’t help on that one. I can sense, though, that we are talking diff instruments, and THAT makes a difference.</p>
<p>Igloo, try some of the search tips here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html</a> </p>
<p>There are plenty of threads/posts on EMF, Interlochen, Brevard.</p>
<p>If you have problems locating them, let me know.</p>
<p>I just want to thank those of you who have instantly helped me calm down about summer programs. I WAS getting a little stressed about this summer, so thanks for thinking of me :). It’s not the money so much, actually, but my DS has never been a guy who is dying to get away from home. Eventually I’m sure he’ll be ready to get out, but the “best” summer programs are pretty far away, and right now he’s just not interested. He has big goals, and I know that great summer programs would be enormously helpful, so I was getting worried. I feel much better now, thanks to you all. I think he’ll focus on lessons, volunteering at the kids music camp in town, hopefully extra practice, and possibly a composition class or lessons. Maybe all of that will help him discover which thing he really loves most, anyhow. And I can relax & enjoy listening again. It’s so hard to keep in mind that it’s his life, & that this whole thing is really up to him, when I know what his goal is, and he’s just not going for it in the way I think he should. Ack, the frustration 
Thanks again!</p>
<p>Whenever anyone asked what she was doing last summer, she would mention the new program, “Brevardtanglesongfestalwolftrap”! Weekly lessons with her new grad school teacher, twice weekly coachings, teaching to save money for grad school and 2-3 hours of practice a day to learn a new role. With the added expense of coachings and lessons, she still spent a pile of money, but she got so much done. This summer it’s more of the same since she has to polish her five audition pieces and POSSIBLY a free trip to Italy for a month care of my frequent flyer miles and the use of a house on Lake Como for a month. We have a friend who puts on a music festival there, so she may be able to perform. There are worse ways to live.</p>
<p>Anyone been to Eastern Music Festival for piano? We are looking for feedback and we have a week to decide.</p>
<p>My son was at EMF but not in Piano…he did say the pianists were awesome the two years he was there.</p>
<p>I want to warn people that Interlochen is not all it’s hyped up to be. My daughter, age 14, is currently there in the intermediate camp for music and is miserable. She is not allowed to go anywhere without the group and she feels like she is in prison. Also, she is very disappointed with the level of music being performed in the wind ensemble–very basic. She attended the Tanglewood Institute earlier in the summer (workshop) and had a wonderful time there. Perhaps the high school experience at Interlochen is better, but I feel competely ripped off. No sailing lessons, despite the website stating that they do have them, no chamber music. Every hour is controlled and she is so bored, as well as concerned that she is not allowed to practice enough. I wished someone had warned us about how bad this camp is! Apparently it was reorganized about 5 years ago–clearly for the worse.</p>
<p>woodwinds-
I am sorry your D is having a hard time at Interlochen. I know nothing about it, so I can’t say what the deal is there, but I also will tell you that summer programs are weird things, they all have their own unique culture and ways of doing things, and the key is to find what fits. I have heard from people who loved Aspen, thought it was the cats meow, others who thought that is was way overhyped, that unless you were one of the ‘favored greats’ of some teacher, it was a slog…I know people who want to BUTI at Tanglewood and thought they got more out of their regular orchestra programs and it was a waste, others who reveled in it. Some kids love Greenwood, because it is very “campy” so to speak, some think it is not really “musical”. Meadowmount IME has supporters, and a lot of detractors, too,who seem to compare it to the boot camp sequence in “full metal jacket” <em>shrug</em>. Doesn’t mean your daughter is wrong in her impressions, it obvious didn’t work for her, as some programs didn’t work for my S, he had one year we thought he was going to give up music…because it is so subjective, rather then labelling the program as ‘crap’, it may be better to say “my D hated it, she found the regimentation horrible,etc” rather then saying the program itself was bad (and remember, I am neither defending nor villifying Interlochen, I don’t have any basis for that). Like I said, I have met people who thought BUTI was overrated (other then getting to go to the BSO concerts most nights), but your D loved it, which is great.</p>
<p>I am sorry that your daughter is having a rough time at Interlochen. My daughter went there for a few year when she was in middle school. She loved it. A lot of it is probably subjective. The program is structured and campers have to follow their schedule. Kids have to be in groups of 3 to go off. For her it wasn’t confining. She thrived within the structure and enjoyed the company of others. It is a highly sociable place. I would agree that for serious musicians, it could be unsatisfying. Not much practice time unless you sign up for extra practice. Good luck to your daughter. Hope she feels better.</p>
<p>My daughter attended the high school program (she is now in college) and still says it was the best summer of her life. The program was non stop, but the music was amazing. She attened Tanglewood the following summer. She enjoyed the freedom at Tanglewood, but missed the intensity that she had at Interlochen, and even NYSMF! She did complain about the lack of time to practice at Interlochen, but she likes a full day. (That helped her to prepare for the chaotic college music performance schedule…and trying to get practice in whenever or wherever you can!)<br>
I do wish you daughter, woodwinds, were having a better time. I do know how hard it is to have a child away and not happy. Daughter questioned her decision to go to Tanglewood, but she tried to make the most of it. She was older, and that could make all the difference in the world. Take care and hope your summer will end on a good note!</p>
<p>I think it’s particularly difficult for us as parents when we get a phone call from a kid who is not having a good time - at camp, school, whatever. We try to say all the right things and then the call ends, and we obsess about how things are going, sometimes for days. Meanwhile, in my experience anyway, the kid has usually worked things out and feels much better about the whole situation, and just hasn’t bothered to call and let me know I can stop (a) sticking pins in the voodoo doll of the roommate, (b) searcihing flight schedules so I can get the kid home immediately, (c) hovering my finger over the phone ready to dial Someone In Authority, (d) pacing back and forth muttering about how terrible the situation is.</p>
<p>Woodwinds, hope your D is have a better time now.</p>
<p>My D attended a three week intermediate session last year and made great friends which she maintains contact with. I do recall that when we picked her up the first thing she said to us was “this was not worth the money you spent” and she still feels that way about it from a cost standpoint. The time spent at Interlochen did help her prepare for this past year and I strongly believe that if the camp she is at now (which is dorm based) was her first “away experience” it may have been a rougher road to become accustomed to.
We know of many students that have done the Interlochen HS division and intensly loved it, along with a few others such as Kinhaven and Blue Lake. Perhaps if a student is very advanced at a young age a program such as NYSMF may be a better fit vs the Interlochen Intermediate session. Please note that there are some internet groups that will pull any negative comments regarding Interlochen from a thread. I remember viewing one last year and watching negative statements vanish soon after they were published. I just hope they have stopped the bananna relay activity.</p>
<p>So here’s a question to all - has anyone had any experience with the summer program at Eastman for HS students?</p>
<p>Woodwinds,
it sounds like your daughter is at the borderline age between being in HS division and intermediate division at Interlochen. HS division has a lot more freedom than intermediate division and I suspect more advanced music. Intermediate division is probably a poor fit for your daughter’s maturity level, both musically and non musically.</p>
<p>Thanks all for replying. We didn’t have a choice about putting her into Intermediate; she is considered an 8th grader and was not allowed to apply for the high school division, which by all accounts sounds like a far better program. My daughter continues to be very unhappy and also says I have really wasted my money. She figured out how to call from a broken phone at Interlochen, and as a result doesn’t have to wait in line to call and calls me twice a day now. I have a lot more information than most parents about the current camp. She is really bored by the basic music and feels she is wasting time there.</p>
<p>Woodwinds - What a hard position you are in, to be dealing as a parent with your D’s disappointments. This is offered as a suggestion, and not as a criticism, but my own kids have learned sometimes that “the things you learn on your way to learning other things” is the most valuable education they’ve had. Perhaps by calling twice a day and reiterating the negative things is only making it worse? Maybe you could try to get her to find a couple positive things each day when she calls. </p>
<p>Maybe it’s bad music, but could she concentrate on being the very best performer she can be? I remember having to point out to my S once upon a time that being a career musician almost always means performing music someone else picked, and performing it well whether or not he liked it.</p>
<p>Maybe give her random assignments each day – To photograph the cutest boy she can find. Or to report three positive things that happened that day. Or to talk to someone she’s not yet met. Sometimes making a new friend can completely turn around a situation. Or whatever. You know your D, so you can brainstorm what would help.</p>
<p>The other thing that she is not too young to learn is that the music world is very, very small. I am amazed continually at how many people my S sees over and over. Perhaps your D might want to take advantage of learning who’s who, and making sure she leaves a positive impression.</p>
<p>It’s a tough situation. I’m trying to salvage something out of what is left of her summer program.</p>
<p>Thanks binx, all good points. I have reminded my daughter to work on the small things and she says she is trying hard even though she is sad. Her calls are more for her sanity I think. I have asked one of the directors to change her group or instrument; either to put her in the high school band or let her play one of her other instruments in her current group. Hopefully she will get to do some chamber music next week.</p>
<p>D ended up having options for her summer program. This put us in the joyful but scary position of having to choose. Once I got over the initial shock, I got into “consumer” mode and started PM’ing people (many thanks to all who responded) and calling program administrators. I asked exact questions about day-to-day schedules, time available for individual practice, supervision, use of electronic devices, uniforms, hidden costs (including never-before-mentioned tickets to evening concerts), how much the advertised teaching staff members would actually be there, living arrangements, etc. I learned that you can’t just go by reputation, and that you have to take into account the experience for each instrument. D is now finishing up her program, and has had a fantastic experience. She kept up with the many challenges provided, and even though some harsh realities finally sunk in, she has strengthened her resolve toward a life in music. She improved tremendously. Lastly, she got along immediately with all of her roommates, who I’m sure will be lifelong friends. Will be happy to discuss further by PM.</p>
<p>Im so sorry that your daughter had a bad experience. Im a little surprised, however, that you would choose to address her personal frustrations by posting warnings to other parents that Interlochen is awful, bad, hyped, and a rip off.</p>
<p>I had two children in the Intermediate division this summer (one of whom is 14). So let me try to add some perspective. </p>
<p>RESTRICTIONS. Interlochen is very clear about the restrictions placed on the lower division campers (intermediate and junior). The camp also makes children wear uniforms (including knickers on concert days). That doesnt make Interlochen a rip off. Its just the way they operate. </p>
<p>PHONES. Interlochen recently decided to ban cell phones so that the children can have a few weeks unplugged to concentrate on their art. Children are now given only limited access to the public phones during the week. I support that choice (but they definitely need to do something about the long phone lines that have resulted). </p>
<p>SAILING. I dont recall seeing anything about sailing lessons for intermediates, but then again we werent really focused on recreational activities.</p>
<p>CHAMBER GROUPS. They are available, at least for string players (perhaps not for woodwinds). My 14 year old daughter played in one and it was a highlight of her summer. In any event, Interlochen sends each camper their full hour-by-hour class schedule ahead of time, so it should be evident long before they arrive exactly how they will be spending their time.</p>
<p>LEVEL OF MUSIC. The Intermediate division has two orchestras available to woodwind players: (i) the wind ensemble and (ii) the Intermediate Symphony Orchestra (ISO). Placement in the ISO is based on the initial audition (chair tests are then held at the camp itself). My wife, who is a professional musician, saw the concerts at the end of camp and said the wind ensemble was very good, but not exceptional (more like what you would hear from a top middle school than an elite international music camp). The ISO, however, had a very challenging and impressive repertoire. And, as many others have pointed out, there is a significant step up in the high school division as well. Interlochens elite reputation is primarily based on its top high school orchestra (the WYSO).</p>
<p>We initially doubted whether we should send our 14 year old to the intermediate program. She is an 8th grader age wise, but had skipped a grade and had already played for a year in one of the top high school orchestras in the state. But playing with the ISO and the chamber orchestra were more than worth it. She also got a lot out of her private lessons and enjoyed the overall experience of being around so many talented student artists in so many different fields. She definitely would like to come back as a high school camper if she can.</p>
<p>My son went to Session II for Intermediate Piano at Interlochen. He loved it wants to go back next year. He would be in the high school division.</p>
<p>It was a very positive experience for him (he liked the “camp” atmosphere), but there were many important details we didn’t know about until they happened. I found it rather frustrating that we (perhaps me more than him) couldn’t get answers beforehand, in spite of a direct email Q/A link to Interlochen, their parents blog (questions posted were not answered), and this forum. It is not, however, a problem with the forums, it is a problem with the camp. I get the feeling that parents are supposed to be happy and trusting (to spend lots of money) based on a high level, glossy brochure-like overview. It would be very easy to add the details on their web sites.</p>
<p>The most important detail had to do with performance opportunities and how the people were selected. We knew there were auditions, but we did not know what that meant. If you did not do well in the audition, the opportunities would be slim. He did well, however, and was offered to play with the orchestra or play in a chamber music group. Somehow, the chance to play with the orchestra disappeared and he was put in a chamber music group. (probably because he had 2 years experience in chamber music) Actually, this turned out to be better, since he got to direct many rehearsals and it was a better learning experience. However, critical decisions were being made and many were a surprise to us.</p>
<p>Also, there was a mixup (and limited slots!) so that he never got a chance to play in the final piano recital at the end of the session. There is so much going on, and so many performances, that it comes down to limited time and venues. Concert places were booked completely. If it were not for the chamber group performance, he would have no formal performance opportunities. They did, however, have master classes where he always volunteered. </p>
<p>Note that it is best to come to camp with several pieces that are ready to play, or are very close. The camp may be a very intense musical experience, but that doesn’t mean that you have the time to properly prepare new pieces. They did this for their chamber music piece, but for his more advanced solo repertoire, he could never start and finish a new piece. Also, people might talk about how lovely it is to hear music pouring forth from all of the practice huts, but this also means that it’s pouring into all of the practice huts. It doesn’t help with concentration, and, in spite of attempts to stop it, there is a lot of socializing and playing music for your new friends.</p>
<p>Then, there are the details about each class he took. One was called Piano Collaborative, but we knew nothing about how it worked and whether they offered a performance opportunity. That didn’t happen. He also signed up for an instrument exploration class thinking that he would get to spend 3 weeks on one instrument. That seemed to be what the form said. He even wrote down what instrument he wanted to study. It really was a class that cycled through many different instruments on a very superficial basis, and the class was mostly filled with Junior campers. He didn’t like it at first, but then he warmed up to it. He wouldn’t do that again.</p>
<p>They offer the chance to select your private instructor, but they don’t encourage it. Our son loved the one he got, but there is only so much you can do in a short span of time. I though they might get more time to work on major pieces he had to prepare for the fall (MTNA competition), but that just did not happen. We had a feeling it might be that way.</p>
<p>My son loves to swim and sail, but he did not set a foot in the water. (The risk of swimmer’s itch keeps many out.) In the Intermediate division, however, everything is done in groups, and there are limited choices. I suppose he could have pushed to see if he could go sailing, but he just stuck with the limited set of choices put in front of him. We had no details about that, and we still don’t have them. I suppose there is more individual freedom and choices in the high school division, but maybe we won’t know the details about that beforehand.</p>
<p>Don’t take this as a bad review of Interlochen. My son loved it and can’t wait to go back. However, I’m more concerned about how much musical development is going on. A lot of that has to do with the teaching and performance opportunities. He wants to go to the 6 weeks of piano in the high school division next year, but I don’t know exactly what goes on. </p>
<p>His private teacher also gave us information about BUTI. Now that he is old enough to apply, I want more details, but there are few available. I just went through their web site and there is nothing about how each day is structured for the piano students. There appears to be two performance opportunities in each session, but what are the details?</p>
<p>BUTI is supposed to have more of a college dorm atmosphere than Interlochen’s camp feel, but what does that mean in terms of details. What are the details about classes and free time? Do you develop a collective group bond, or does everyone break into small groups to do their own things? They can go to all of the Tanglewood concerts, but do they?</p>
<p>Perhaps the only real way to find answers is to connect with someone who had gone to the “camp” for a specific instrument. So, I’m looking for infomation on the Interlochen High School Piano program and the BUTI Young Artists Piano Program. I can give feedback on the Interlochen Intermediate Piano program. For BUTI, it would be nice to get a feel for the typical level of repertoire expected and how the audition process works.</p>
<p>pianoparent, I think you are right about needing to talk with someone who has experienced the particular program you are looking at at BUTI. Even though my child already went there and loved it, I still plan on calling them and asking particular questions, and reaching out to others who have attended that program if she does get admitted again.</p>
<p>My daughter attended the two-week workshop, which may run differently than the full summer program. She attended classes between around 9AM to 4PM each day. They took a short bus trip to the location and back. After that, they were free to do as they wished. she did form a small group, play chamber music with this group, and attend evening concerts occasionally. A big difference between BUTI and INterlochen is that students are free to call home whenever they want to and cell phones are not confiscated. So my daughter could call me when she wanted to and let me know what was going on. She was very happy so she didn’t call much, but I had a much better sense of what instruction she had there vs. what was going on at Interlochen.</p>