@ucbalumnus - This is MSU or Univ of Michigan?
Between UPitt, USF Tampa, ASU , cal Poly SLO - which would you choose for CS if you do not want cut throat competition? Registration of classes should be easier to get into if the kid can maintain a minimum GPA. Any info on above colleges is appreciated
Olin – no weed-out mentality
Rose Hulman also has already been suggested as no weed-out mentality
An alternate approach would be to go to Haverford for it’s 4+1 program with UPenn. Haverford is the polar opposite of weed-out, has great FA and is part of a consortium with other top schools. In contrast with the more common 3+2 programs, the 4+1 allows your son to graduate with his class and also get his engineering degree. Liberal arts classes can only help him with his writing and reasoning schools. Those are rare in engineers, relatively speaking, and make him more valuable – https://www.haverford.edu/engineering/41-program-university-pennsylvania
Dartmouth also offers a unique program that allows you to completely miss the weed-out issue – a 2+1+1+1. Two years in an undergraduate LAC with small supportive classes for the intense foundation courses, junior year at Dartmouth, senior year back at LAC to graduate with friends, return to Dartmouth one year to complete engineering.
https://engineering.dartmouth.edu/academics/undergraduate/dual/
Here are the undergraduate LACs that he could choose from–
Amherst
Bard
Bates
Bowdoin
Colby
Grinnell
Hamilton
Hobart & William Smith
Middlebury
Morehouse
Mount Holyoke
Pomona College
Simon's Rock
Skidmore
Spelman
St. Lawrence
Vassar
Wesleyan
Wheaton
Williams
3/2 options are nice to have but honestly not many kids take advantage of them. If I were a student interested in engineering I’d want to go to a school with an engineering program.
@Sue22 – agree that 3+2 programs are not ideal. That’s why I thought I’d mention the 4+1 and the 2+1+1+1 programs. They seem to solve several problems both with engineering programs in general (the weed-out issue and the lack of liberal arts skills, such as writing and research and LAC-types of reasoning skills) and with 3+2 programs (can’t graduate with friends).
ASU and CPSLO generally admit directly to major; to change into CS after enrolling as undeclared or in a different major, a college GPA significantly higher than 2.0 is needed. Students who are directly admitted to the major as frosh need not worry about such GPA criteria.
Could not find any information on Pittsburgh or South Florida web sites if there are any restrictions to changing into the CS major beyond C grades or 2.0 college GPA. You may want to ask the CS departments directly if you cannot find it.
Tufts is a leader in engineering retention. They started studying/addressing the issue and back in the 1990’s. Per a presentation at a STEM conference in Washington DC, as of 2014 they had zero net attrition with 99% of engineering freshman graduating in four years. More than 60% of engineers participate in research and nearly 80% participate in at least one internship. Female enrollment recently hit 50%.
https://www.tms.org/meetings/2014/diversity/downloads/presentations/Abriola.pdf
@AlmostThere2018 NCSU is great for engineering in our kid’s experience. It has every undergrad engineering major imaginable and a business school and almost every other undergrad major. In state tuition is great, use it to take a hard class like Statics over the summer and lighten the load during the year and come out way ahead financially. Yes there are CODA requirements once the minimum courses are completed and certain majors have higher GPAs but very doable. Don’t look for advisor’s help to much though. (you get what you pay for).
I agree that Cal Poly should be on the list if a student is looking for a collaborative, non-weed out environment. They “weed in” by competing for major at application.
Computer Science is the most competitive admit on campus though (they are expecting over 5000 applications for 100 slots) and they over enrolled a few years ago when they eliminated ED. As a result, the rules change intermittently from requiring a 3.3 to not allowing anyone to switch into CS, regardless of their GPA.
Do not chose Cal Poly if switching into CS needs to be on the table, because sometimes it isn’t.
Otherwise, my son, who is just finishing his MS in ME got a GREAT engineering education. His roommate has a brother who went to Georgia Tech. She said he was blown away by how much deeper their course lab work was at Cal Poly and how much more robust the Cal Poly Senior Projects were relative to those at Georgia Tech. It’s one person’s opinion only, but a pretty good data point.
Lastly, I wholeheartedly agree with your approach of looking at schools where you don’t have to stress out about not getting your major. Good luck!
Some stats on major declaration (CODA) at NCSU for engineering majors including CS:
https://ir.engr.ncsu.edu/coe-coda-statistics/
Minimum to be eligible to declare an engineering major is 2.0 college GPA in prerequisites, but it looks like the low end of the GPA range of most majors is 2.5 or higher, with more popular ones like CS at around 3.0 or higher, although no specific thresholds are listed. But they do list capacity and number of students applying to each major (CS often has more applicants than capacity, but not hugely more so far).
@anon145 – We are in-state for NCSU so it’s def. of great interest so thank you for sharing. He’s hoping to do a summer program there next year. They have a computer hardware engineering program he’s interested in. I know they have a great program and there’s so many tech companies in the area that’s a bonus too.
I don’t know much about NCSU’s business programs – I think of UNC as the stronger of the two. But honestly, I’m sure it’d be fine.
@ppxyz123 CS, and engineering in general, is not “limited access” at USF. It’s also fairly easy for first time in college (freshman admits) to switch majors, as long as they have the required GPA. They do require a 3.0 GPA in their core classes (English, Calc and Physics). In addition, they may also require a minimum grade of a B in two intro to programming classes.
@Gator88NE thanks for the info. I think my concern is not about switching major to CS but for a kid who has already got into CS. I keep hearing that registration of classes is difficult etc. in many colleges like UCSD , SJSU etc. I would like to know if this would be a problem at colleges like USF , Cal Poly SLO etc
@ppxyz123 Getting into your classes are not an issue at USF. You may not like the time/day of the class (who likes first period classes?), but they do a good job of keeping students on track and in their required classes.
Keep in mind that the Florida public’s all receive “performance based” funding from the state. Graduation rates is a key component. The schools want to keep all of the students on track to graduate. Every semester, your courses (in engineering) have to be approved by an adviser in the COE. If classes are full, and it’s a critical class, they will override registration to make sure you stay on track. Having to met with an adviser, every semester, to get the registration hold removed is a pain, but you do get into your classes.
Requiring a GPA higher than 2.0 or grades higher than C means that the majors are “limited access”, in that they are not accessible to many students who pass the prerequisites.
Or is this an implicit message that C is now what D used to mean (barely passing, rather than solidly passing and ready for the next course that C used to mean)?
@ppxyz123 almost all CS programs across the country are very crowded. Its a good question to ask about class registration and I would ask that on another on line blogging platform, where undergraduate students are blogging.