Which Top Colleges have Bad Fin. Aid?

<p>Part II</p>

<p>There is a big difference between the federal methodology and the institutional methodology for calculating financial aid. (This is the answer to the $64,000 question why does the Fafsa say I have a $2 efc and my college gave me a $20,000 efc?). Schools that use the FAFSA only use the federal methodology for calculating financial aid. Keep in mind that most of these schools do not meet 100% of demonstrated need. they gap.</p>

<p>The basic formula for FA is as follows:</p>

<p>Cost of attendance (tuition, room, board, books,misc. expenses) - EFC (parents and student's contribution) = Demonstrated need.</p>

<p>For example</p>

<p>School A</p>

<p>COA= 45,000- 15,000 (efc) = 30,000 demonstrated need.</p>

<p>If your school only meets 63% of demonstrated need </p>

<p>$30,000 *.63 = $18,900</p>

<p>30000-189000 =11,000 GAP (the amount of money the school is not going to meet and you will have to come up with this $$ the best way you can.</p>

<p>At minimum this school is going to cost your family $26,000 out of pocket (the EFC + the GAP).</p>

<p>School B
45,000 -15,000 =30,000 </p>

<p>school meet 100% of demonstrated need. School meets need with 78% grants and 22% work study and loans</p>

<p>30000*.78 =23,400 grant aid
6600 (in work study and loans)</p>

<p>$2625 max stafford loan
$2000 in work study
$1995 Perkins loan (depending on your financial situation ) or school loan.</p>

<p>Not every school packages FA the same way (some schools meet 100% demonstrated need but are heavy on loan aid). This is where the college board is a dream becasue they do provide the FA packaing for many schools to give you an idea of what you are in for.</p>

<p>The FAFSA and the CSS profile measure 2 different things.</p>

<p>The FAFSA (federal methodology) really only looks at your eligibility for federal aid (loans and pell/seog grants ). All schools require the FAFSA.</p>

<p>If you are attending a school that gives need based FA, they most likely use an institutional/concensus methodology to determing aid will most likely ask for the Profile or their own institutional aid form in addition to the FAFSA. </p>

<p>A school that use the FAFSA long with the CSS profile / their own institutional forms does look at the income assets of both parents: custodial/non-custodial and even step parents. </p>

<p>Your EFC from a school that only uses the FAFSA will look very different from a school that uses the FAFSA and the CSS profile or their own instiutional aid form.</p>

<p>The information from the profile will account for your increase in EFC because your EFC may show that you have considerable income/assets/equity which shows up on the profile that you don't have to indicate on the FAFSA.</p>

<p>The FAFSA is requested by all schools and is mainly used by schools that calculate FA using the federal methodology. </p>

<p>The schools that require the CSS profile often distribute their own institutional funds and use an institutional/ concensus methodolody. The Profile is used to get a more complete picture of your financial situation.</p>

<p>Differences between the IM and FM models include:</p>

<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>

<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>

<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>

<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>

<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>

<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>

<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>

<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>

<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>

<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>

<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>

<p>As a student, there are cumulative limit of $23,000 which you can borrow for an undergraduate education using stafford or perkins loans.</p>

<p>there are a number of FA calculators (college board) including some at the sites of the schools that you are interested in attending. I would suggest running your numbers through their calculators to see what the numbers look like.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.</p>

<p>
[quote]
If your school only meets 63% of demonstrated need ....</p>

<p>school meet 100% of demonstrated need. School meets need with 78% grants and 22% work study and loans

[/quote]
</p>

<p>More clarification to Sybbie's excellent post:</p>

<p>As far as I know, while some schools promise to meet 100% need, there is no college that promises to meet a lesser percentage of need -- that is, there is no such thing as a 63% need school. These statistics come from reported averages -- for example, you might look at the Common Data Set for Ripoff University and see that that 63%. </p>

<p>But that figure doesn't mean that they gap all students equally -- it means that on average, that is the percentage of need met. Some students get 100%, some get 0%, and some get something in between. Most colleges have some sort of preference system where they give the best packages to the strongest students. NYU seems to have some sort of tiered system where they very similar packages across a wide range of income levels to some students.</p>

<p>Also, while NYU is notoriously bad for aid, some colleges follow a practice of meeting full need for all the students who get grant aid, but they simply don't give grant aid to every student. My son went to Sarah Lawrence, which has an average figure of meeting 91% of need, but they also report that they the need is fully met for 75% of their students -- and my son's award was very generous, better than any other college offered him. So it looks like they give good financial aid for 75% of the students, but the weak aid for the other 25% brings down the overall average. </p>

<p>So when you look at the aid figures for a college that does not always meet full need, you have to consider your standing in the applicant pool - as well as factors such as URM status that might provide the college with incentive to offer generous aid. </p>

<p>The whole thing gets complicated by the fact that many colleges that do not fully meet need do offer merit aid, so often a package that is a combination of need + merit aid can be very generous even from a college that is generally stingy with the money. So the higher you are in the applicant pool, the greater the likelihood of receiving substantial financial assistance. </p>

<p>So I guess the moral is: don't get your hopes up, but do feel free to apply to colleges that do not promise to meet the full need of all students, if you are a strong candidate for that school. If the college is a big reach, however... aid dollars are not likely to be there.... except for those 100% need, prestige colleges like the top LACs and the Ivies. So if you are going to reach... reach for the best. :)</p>

<p>As to the percentage of loans vs. grants, that doesn't work too well either because again it is an average. But the maximum amount of federally subsidized loans is limited by law -- so if a college had a policy of requiring only a Stafford loan of all its aid recipients ($2625), but had a large number of upper middle class students who only qualified for small grants, then it would look like a high ratio of loans to grants. That is, a $2625 loan and a $5000 grant is 52% loans, 48% grants -- but if that is the college's average that doesn't mean that a student who qualifies for a $15000 grant will have $7,875 in loans to go along with it. So what you have to do for predicting grant aid is look at the average loan AMOUNTS rather than percentages. A college that reports the average first year loan is $3000 or less is pretty much sticking to Stafford loans; a college where the average is $5000 or more is asking most students to take additional loans.</p>

<p>BU gave DD an outstanding grant $$. I have also heard the opposite though . It was worth the ap $$ in her case.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>That's an interesting way to sum up the thread to date.</p>

<p>NYU gave me the same amount of dollars in grants/free money as Berkeley. I'm in state and did not expect to get much considering the crappy bugdet the state of California is dealing with currently but it's a big crapload percentagewise of the whole cost of going there. This meant that I got twice as much in the amount of loans from NYU than Berkeley.</p>

<p>NYU meets 100% of need to most of students.</p>

<p>Althou it meets by issuing $40,000 PLUS loans :D</p>

<p>^ Yup i heard of many people who got huge plus loans... most around in the 20K to 40 K level. That would suck.</p>

<p>penn state is horrible</p>

<p>Bottom line - if you need to borrow to get your education use the federal programs. In most states there are non-profit lenders that offer some terrific extra benefits for the federal Stafford, PLUS and Consolidation programs. When you start paying these back they will reduce your interest rate or they will give you money back - they are much better deals than going to private lenders or programs.</p>

<p>These federal programs don't have any extra fees - they have special repayment plans and options to deferment your payments if you are unemployed or go back to school - if you need them use them but use them wisely.</p>

<p>Also, if you have any PLUS loans or Stafford loans with balances over $10,000 and you are out of school and haven't refinanced these through an education loan consolidation program DO IT NOW - interest rates are going up in July by almost 2% - you can lock your current rate down right now and get some extra benefits on top of it but you have to act before June 30th or you are out of luck.</p>

<p>Well penn state gave $16,425 out of the $20,680 it cost to go. I guess I was very lucky.</p>

<p>I'd like to point out that some parents can't get PLUS loans.</p>

<p>You are absolutely correct however if your parents get rejected from a PLUS loan then you are entitled to get more Stafford Unsub money from the school!</p>

<p>But there is a cap on that.</p>

<p>Dartmouth gave us the worst aid of all the schools to which my son was admitted, but he's attending anyway :( It's funny that so many complain about Cornell, since for our S and for a friend's D, they gave the best financial aid of all our schools.</p>

<p>Our best merit aid came from Washington & Lee.</p>

<p>If your parents get rejected for a PLUS loan you can get about $4,000 more in Stafford Unsub loans each year -- at least that is what I believe is the number - you really need to check with the school financial aid office to be sure. </p>

<p>If you still need more money maybe the school has a payment plan system because any other loan you try to get is going to be credit based and unless you can find a credityworthy co-signer you won't get approved for those either.</p>

<p>Precisely. That's why, when certain schools develop a practice of relying on PLUS loans and other credit-based financing options for its students, they run the risk of excluding some admitted students from the school.</p>

<p>My daughters finanicial aid packages varied greatly.</p>

<p>Worst aid package was from Brown initially.
Best was from Wesleyan.
Tufts was high, Yale less than Brown, but a lot more than Wesleyan.</p>

<p>I have heard that Princeton has the best aid among Ivies.</p>

<p>BC "fills 100% need" gave me less than half of what NYU gave me, just as a reference. While Brandies which is known for good aid gave me only about 1,000 more than what NYU did.</p>

<p>GW didn't even come close to meeting my need.
Muhlenberg sent me a letter basically saying they ran out of money and therefore couldn't give me ANYTHING. I was put on a financial aid "waiting list" there.</p>

<p>Wellesley and Colby met just about 100% of my need, almost all of which was in grants. They really came through.</p>

<p>Wellesley's awesome w. aid. As is Mount Holyoke. The women's colleges know how to take care of their own.</p>