<p>My apologies for not realizing that stargzerlilies but morrism makes a good point, I'm sure a lot of people have been turned away for the reasons she brings up and I'm sure a lot of people have been interested for the reasons you bring up as well. I did used to be in love with Cornell, ha that I'm sure of but when it got down to it I decided not to apply. I wasn't a NY resident anyway. I say for fashion and marketing/business and all the connections that come with it, USC would be your ideal choice. A lot of people within that world went to USC anyway, the connections alone would be amazing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't think Cornell gives merit scholarships though, or at least they're very rare.
[/quote]
None of the Ivies grant any merit-based financial aids. This is by consent of all the Ivy members.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am confident that USC would offer a great educational experience. though the large class sizes are a concern and I therefore make it equivalent to the higher level UCs
[/quote]
USC may have larger class size than Chapman or a LAC, however, it should be comparable to Cornell.</p>
<p>% classes under 20: Cornell (60%); USC (64%)
% classes over 50: Cornell (17%); USC (12%)
Student/Faculty ratio: Cornell (10:1); USC (9:1)</p>
<p>My vote goes to USC too. For fashion/marketing, you can't beat the #2 market.</p>
<p>gadad:</p>
<p>Chapman has made PR's top 350+ colleges for the past few years so it's on the way up. Chapman would be the OP's financial safety, since the D would easily receive merit money with Cornell stats. Of course, with NMSF and Cornell stats, USC is practically a safety as well.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all your great comments... they seem to echo the ones going around my head. Just to answer a few questions:
- NorCal resident
- Has not been accepted to any of these schools yet (admitted to a safety on a very random early, early application - she applied because it was the first one that said, "no fee required") - estimated at about 50% chance at Cornell early decision - know Dec 15
- And of course, I recognize USC chance is < 100% (I believe National Merit finalists with good stats have been denied) currently preparing application (no early option) and also applying to range of UCs and Chapman.</p>
<p>So Columbia_Student may be correct in that: "until you have real offers speculation is a waste of time"... but I really appreciate the responses in helping me check my thinking and evaluation... this is my first experience and have two more to follow in the next 4 years. The kindest parental pocketbook option is that Cornell ED says No and USC say yes with National Merit help, then I can say we are very sorry darling that your first option did not work out, but remember your parents were willing to support it :-)</p>
<p>ED is binding. She won't be able to consider USC/Chapman or others when she gets accepted. So I don't see the point of looking at Cornell vs USC/Chapman after she already submitted the ED application.</p>
<p>If she doesn't get accepted, then you can start looking at USC vs Chapman.</p>
<p>Ideally, you should have brought this up BEFORE she applied for Cornell ED.</p>
<p>By the way, where is the center of fashion design industry these days? Where are the jobs? According to <a href="http://www.marshall.usc.edu/assets/073/15572.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.marshall.usc.edu/assets/073/15572.pdf</a>, 75% of the USC grads accepted offers upon graduation. Out of those, ~75% were in Southern California and only 4% were in the NE. USC may have good connection in LA but they have very weak presence in NYC. So think about where she wants to end up working. If she doesn't get accepted to Cornell but wants to work in the NE, she may want to add more schools.</p>
<p>Georgia Girl,
According to their report, its SAT was 2048 for class of 2011. I wouldn't call it "very selective" in the CC sense.</p>
<p>Even I said there's no point for comparison, my curiosity led me to the opposite. According to Applied</a> Economics and Management/Cornell, 87% of the Cornell grads accepted offers upon graduation. This is 12 percentage-point higher than USC despite the fact that it's in the middle of nowhere. Maybe you won't be overpaying as much as you think after all. ;)</p>
<p>
Umm, Haas has very small class sizes and is miles ahead of Marshall.</p>
<p>Classes Under 20 Students:
USC: 63.6%
Berkeley: 61.6%</p>
<p>Classes Over 50 Students:
USC: 11.9%
Berkeley: 14.1%</p>
<p>
[quote]
Classes Under 20 Students:
USC: 63.6%
Berkeley: 61.6%</p>
<p>Classes Over 50 Students:
USC: 11.9%
Berkeley: 14.1%
[/quote]
</p>
<p>UCB, from your statistics, USC has smaller percentage of classes with students greater than 50 right and larger percentage of classes with students less than 20. So USC does have smaller classes than UCB.</p>
<p>Kathryn62,
I am from NorCal too. Two years ago, my S2 faced similar choices. (U.Mich., USC Marshall and Cornell AEM) He finally decided on Cornell for the following reasons: 1. While USC has a tremendous alumni network in SoCal, Cornell connections and overall cachet is better in the east coast especially in NYC, nationally and internationally. 2. Student population's characteristics fit his personality better. 3. Smaller classes ( AEM only accepts 90 freshmen, 200 per graduating class including transfers) 4. The opportunity to be exposed and live in a "different culture" for a well rounded college experience and personal growth.
As for your D, I would offer the following observations: 1. When my son was applying to USC, they were ridiculously generous to all the NMSF. If it holds true today, your D is guaranteed to receive a 50% to full scholarship. That is a major factor in the financial decision process. (BTW, make sure your D sent in the app. before the scholarship adm. deadline. My son was told he would have gotten the President's Scholarship but he missed the deadline. It left a very bad taste in his mouth.) 2. USC is in SoCal, the back yard of Hollywood, both the school culture, the alumni and student body and their families are relatively more "show-biz" and "glam" leaning. This environment will more likely provide the necessary connections conducive to a career development in the fashion industry. (at least in SoCal). As a Cornell AEM grad., one would be hard pressed to compete with the graduates from the NY Fashion Institute to break into the 2nd Ave. 3. Personality fit - if your D is interested in the fashion business, she might find the student body ( the beautiful people :))at USC more appealing. 4. In the recent years, USC has made a very concerted effort in building a strong network in Asia. Considering most of the manufacturing of clothes are in the Asia nowadays, it might mean something to your D's career in the future.
Hope this helps. Sorry for the long post.</p>
<p>I'd add two points about AEM at Cornell. </p>
<p>First, while the program only graduates about 240 majors a year, lots of kids at Cornell minor or just dabble. For this reason, core classes in marketing, accounting, entrepreneurship, finance, business law, etc, typically enroll 200-500 kids. These are not small classes.</p>
<p>The second issue is Ag. Remember that AEM is in the Agriculture and Life Science college. Distro requirements at the school include 2 semesters of biology, 1 semester of chem or physics, and 1 additional course in the physical or life sciences. If these requirements sound strange for a business major, they are - possibly a way to justify the program being offered in a state supported college that is supposed to forward the cause of agriculture for the region.</p>
<p>Sam,
The SAT scores for the incoming class of 2008 were higher than the scores listed in that brochure.<br>
Many students accept jobs in California because they wish to stay there. It may or may not be due to the possibility they were unable to obtain positions in the NYC area.
The NYC SC Alumni Club is huge. Obviously, a large number of SC alumni have jobs in that metropolitan area.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marshall.usc.edu/assets/073/15572.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.marshall.usc.edu/assets/073/15572.pdf</a> Those schools you listed are much smaller than the arts&sci + business + engineering, their impact on the overall average is limited.</p>
<p>I don't know about Marshall but the overall range increased from 1910-2180 to 1910-2200 (enrolled, not admitted). The change in average is about 10 points between 2007 and 2008.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UCB, from your statistics, USC has smaller percentage of classes with students greater than 50 right and larger percentage of classes with students less than 20. So USC does have smaller classes than UCB.
[/quote]
I'm aware of that. But, 2-3% difference is essentially insignificant. I was countering the claim that Berkeley has "ridiculous" class sizes...it has relatively the same proportion of small classes and large classes that USC has.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Ag. Remember that AEM is in the Agriculture and Life Science college. Distro requirements at the school include 2 semesters of biology, 1 semester of chem or physics, and 1 additional course in the physical or life sciences.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm a huge fan of Cornell, but for this reason alone I'd drop it from consideration. Yeah, I know, ED app is already in, but even taking the non-premed sciences at Cornell is not a walk in the park. And, for a marketing major? Posh.</p>
<p>^have you seen one of their median grade reports? many of the classes at Cornell are pretty grade-inflated. it shouldn't be difficult to find some easier science courses in a big school like Cornell. regardless, as long as they have good placement stats, as shown in their webpage, i wouldn't worry too much about it.</p>
<p>Sam:</p>
<p>I can safely say I have never met a pre-biz major who wanted to take bio and physics in college. Now of course, there are plenty of premeds who earn that first C and then become biz majors, but that's a different story.</p>
<p>bluebayou,
My son is in AEM. He was able to place out of the full year of bio req. through a 5 in Bio AP. If you take AP Chem or AP Phy and do well, you can probably place out of those too.</p>
<p>That's great for your son, bioeng. But as I noted, I have never met a pre-biz major who wanted to take hard sciences, particularly physics, in college. (Perhaps I just run in strange circles, or just in circles?) :D</p>