<p>
[quote]
^^^ unfortunately Cal's undergrad is ranked in the 20s. It's hard to argue that Cal is the best university in the world when its undergrad program ranks below 20 odd universities in its own country.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>On a thread dedicated to the "world's most renowned universities," you made a statement that's irrelevant to world renown. See previous post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
congratulations! yet another thread hijacked by the Cal fanatics.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You were the one that raised this and just because a lot of people don't agree with you doesn't mean they are fanatics.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but I'm flattered that you have taken the time to wade through that ocean to identify my specific posts (stalk much?)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ha. Stalk much? Uh, how about I can't turn around without running into you.</p>
<p>The_prestige, I would say it is the anti-Cal fanatics who have highjacked this thread. The OP asked a very straghtfoward question. Cal is one of the 4 or 5 most prestigious US universities in the World. Whether it truly is a top 5 undergraduate institution (as the entire academic world, particularly in the US, seems to think) or not (as others seem to believe) is immaterial and not relevant to the topic at hand.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cal is one of the 4 or 5 most prestigious US universities in the World.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So what you are saying is that Cal is more prestigious than at least one or more of these five universities:</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Stanford
Princeton
MIT</p>
<p>Which one(s) is (are) less prestigious than Cal?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Whether it truly is a top 5 undergraduate institution (as the entire academic world, particularly in the US, seems to think) or not (as others seem to believe) is immaterial and not relevant to the topic at hand.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Two comments:</p>
<p>1) So you speak for the "entire academic world" huh? Wow, when was this title bestowed upon you? And where is this evidence that Cal is a top 5 undergrad institution? (READ: UNDERGRAD)
2) And its "immaterial" and "not relevant"... why not? Just because you say it isn't? Clearly, its material and relevant to those international student cross admits who choose to attend higher ranked US universities.</p>
<p>The_prestige, your accusatory tone is insulting. I do not speak on behalf ofanybody or anything. The Peer Assessment score is a pretty good gauge of the overall opinion of the academic world. Cal's 4.8/50 score is tied with Yale and good for #5 in the US. That's for undergraduate education. If you can find a rating compiled by leading academics that does not rank Cal among the top 5 in the US, share it with us. Until then, the Peer Assessment score stands as the only viable and reliable gauge of what the academic world truly thinks.</p>
<p>Personally, from my international experience (over 5 years in Western Europe and 20 years in the Middle East), among the intellectual elite, Berkeley's reputation is not quite on par with Harvard, but it is comparable to the rest of its peers (MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale).</p>
<p>And I repeat, your point is irrelevant and immaterial. Nobody is asking about the actual quality of universities.This thread isn't about helping students with cross admits. The OP has clearly asked to list the "Most World Renowned" universities. Berkeley is clearly one of the top 5 in the US and one of the top 10 in the World. Fullstop, accept defeat and move on.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And I repeat, your point is irrelevant and immaterial... Fullstop, accept defeat and move on.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That's not insulting is it? </p>
<p>And calling me "irresponsible" (particularly when I backed up my statement with a well cited ranking) isn't condescending is it? In fact one of your fellow moderators said:</p>
<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't use such language to respond to someone else's opinion, and so far I'm not sure I share the quoted opinion.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So, if you are going to dish it out, prepare to eat some of it.</p>
<p>As far as the PA is concerned you know that's not a ranking for undergraduate education in isolation. We've had this discussion, in fact the entire CC community has had this discussion ad nauseum, so you aren't fooling anyone.</p>
<p>Your posts are frankly full of contradictions. You have posted on numerous occasions that HYPSM represents the elite tier of undergraduate education in the US. This is accepted fact on CC as much as anything is. But now you are pulling out the PA to say that Cal is a top 5 undergraduate institution? </p>
<p>Finally, the OP asked WHICH university (SINGULAR) is THE most renown. Not which 5, not which 10, not which 20, not which 100. So please get your facts right. Only Cal fanatics would place Cal in that singular position. </p>
<p>Where I come from things like drunk driving is irresponsible or endangering a child is irresponsible. But according to Alex, merely quoting the results of the 2008 USNWR ranking is IRRESPONSIBLE.... oh which reminds me, since you are referencing PA rankings from USNWR, aren't you being irresponsible?</p>
<p>You see how it feels when one is insulting? Not so pleasant is it. Perhaps if you treat others with respect, they will treat you respectfully in return. I'll accept your appology if you accept mine.</p>
<p>Now back to the point topic at hand. </p>
<p>"As far as the PA is concerned you know that's not a ranking for undergraduate education in isolation. We've had this discussion, in fact the entire CC community has had this discussion ad nauseum, so you aren't fooling anyone."</p>
<p>When did I say the PA was a "ranking for undergraduate education in isolation"? I said the PA is a gauge of what the academic world thinks. I do not believe in rankings. You know that about me. I have often expressed my preference for the grouping universities. I personally respect the PA score more than other ratings (or rankings) because at least it has a human element to it as opposed to rankings that are almost entirely statistical in nature and dependent on flawed equations and unreliable numbers.</p>
<p>At any rate, I think we are discussing vastly different topics. You are pointing to the quality of a university's administration. I am attempting to discuss a university's global reputation. I definitely agree that when it comes to overall quality, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford and Yale are a notch above. I have often said as much and I firmly believe that is the case. But that does not necessarily mean that they are more prestigious or reputable. </p>
<p>Finally, I realize that the OP asked which university (singular) is the most well known. The short answer to that question is Harvard. But Beyond Harvard, Cal definitely fits among the top 5 US institutions, globaly speaking.</p>
<p>Alex, I accept your apology. Please accept mine. Frankly, I don't think I started any insult to you in this thread -- but be that as it may let's move on.</p>
<p>rtkysg, I think the_prestige (and others) had a different interpretation than ours. The word/concept "renown" (or prestige) is a contentious one at best.</p>
<p>But powergrid, there is an alternatrive point of view that must be respected. Many people believe that the peer assessment score is flawed and that the only way to compare universities is through statistical analysis. Obviously, neither camp is right (or wrong), it is merely a matter of opinion.</p>
<p>This thread illustrates the power of anecdotes in human thinking. A bunch of people posting here are essentially saying, "I have an opinion, and most everyone I know shares that opinion, therefore my opinion is correct." I call this the "All my friends are stamp collectors" fallacy, because once you take up an opinion, chances are you will mostly notice (and approve of) the views of people who share your opinion. I would say, once again, that if the issue is which university of all universities in the world is most renowned (and that is the OP's question), the way to find out the answer is to conduct a scientific survey of people all over the world. </p>
<p>I've lived in a few different places on both sides of the Pacific, and know people from lots of other places, but besides making the educated guess that Harvard is the answer to the OP's question, I have no particular opinion about what the five or ten or twenty most renowned universities are worldwide. I'm not entirely sure whether the OP wants lay opinion--what anyone anywhere thinks about this issue--or academic opinion. It is certainly possible that the top five most famous university list looks different for the aggregate opinion of persons employed by universities and the aggregate opinion of all members of the general public.</p>