<p>As a white girl i do feel like i’m at a disadvantage…
HOWEVER…i do understand where colleges are coming from
i personally will think less of a college if it is more than 58% female…and will consider not going</p>
<p>Atlas, you misunderstand. My analysis of postings on several threads is that a significant number of admittees with less competitive credentials (i.e., class rank, GPA, test scores) are being admitted because of their “hooks” to the detriment of many higher achieving Asian and caucasian girls.</p>
<p>I understand that, but at what point do GPA and Test Scores become unimportant? Is a kid with a 3.8 really less qualified than one with a 3.9? What is the difference between a 2200 and a 2300 SAT? Without posting the full application of each admitted student, including essays, the numbers are irrelevant.</p>
<p>BarristerDad: “Underrepresented” means exactly what it is supposed to mean. Put simply, if white girls are the significant majority at a college they are not underrepresented. They are overrepresented. Asians at Berkeley and UCLA are “overrepresented.” Asians are probably not overrepresented at Ole’ Miss. </p>
<p>If one group is 2.5 - 4.0 percent of the population but 40% of a college’s student body while whites are 30%, Asians are overrepresented and whites are underrepresented. I read somewhere recently that the U of California head honchos are trying to figure out how to increase the number of whties on some campuses. In effect, that would make whites URMs but only at certain campuses. There are no East Coast campuses where whites could arguably be URMs because of another group.</p>
<p>It all depends on the school to determine if Caucasian females are URMs. It’s not a general principle to be applied across the country.</p>
<p>One problem with College Confidential is how interest is skewed toward elite LACs and Ivies. White females love to go to elite liberal arts colleges more than any other demographic group. They dominated the numbes at most of the top LACs but it’s an opposite problem at schools like Lehigh and Penn State. They need more white females and racial minorities.</p>
<p>If BarristerDad’s daughter would pick something other than an elite liberal arts college, I’m sure there are plenty of outstanding universities to choose from that are begging for white females. Why do white females love LACs so much?</p>
<p>I may be out of school here and I mean no offense, but from my observation, Asian American students seem to be keen on elite universities more than elite LACs. Why? </p>
<p>I know for a fact there are universities in certain parts of the this country where there are virtually no African Americans that would pay full ride scholarship to almost any African American who was willing to enroll. I know two C+ students who were willing to venture out to places like rural Minnesota and North Dakota and received exactly that. I’m speculating here, but an African American with Ivy credentials would be treated like royalty if he/she was willing to enroll at some of those colleges with 0.1% African Americans (not counting football players). The college president would probably send the university plane to go pick up the kid. I think it’s called supply and demand.</p>
<p>The top 10 at my son’s high school features just three guys – one is my son, who will become just the third male valedictorian in the last 11 years. Some of my son’s teachers, and these are people who have been in the business a long time, still believe that maturity plays a big role in shaping one’s academic drive. That’s not to knock any guy. This is an observation from those teachers – and several of those teachers are guys.</p>
<p>The saddest thing is that some guys think it’s bad to be smart. I remember one young man, who was quite bright, telling me that he could get higher grades if he wanted, but if he did, the other guys would disown him. How sad is that? </p>
<p>BCEagle91, you are right about girls and engineering. It cannot hurt. I know that one of my son’s friends said that she should have listed physics as her major when she applied to some of the top schools. At the same time, guys may be able to help themselves if they list their major as English.</p>
<p>BarristerDad: There are schools where each group has a better chance of admission-- but it might mean going out of their comfort zone. (So minority kids will be in a majority-white environment, women in a tech school surrounded by men, men in a liberal arts school sitting in on a lit class with more women than men, etc.) Another place I think white and Asian females would get a boost are HBCUs.</p>
<p>i think they said there was a larger female population applying to college this year. wouldn’t being asian be an anti-hook? and dont colleges not weigh a lot on being a legacy anymore(except princeton)?</p>
<p>I’ll have to disagree, women are actually beginning to outnumber men at top ranked schools, males are lagging behind. White males, I believe are the URM. I am a white male and looking around Cornell University’s campus I definitely felt like a minority</p>
<p>IMO, high schools nowadays teach to the girls. I have a D and a S who have different styles of learning. D is definitely at an advantage w/her visual/auditory style and can sit in a classroom and act like a sponge. My S does not have the patience (or maturity) to do that. Consequently, I’ve seen teachers respond more favorably to the “well behaved” in class and because they are taught in their style of learning, they get better grades. So, it doesn’t surprise me that more girls are applying to colleges.
Can someone just tell me which schools are looking for white/asian males so my son can cut to the chase and apply there :)</p>
<p>lilmom,</p>
<p>In general, your son will have a better chance at many liberal arts colleges. Off the top of my head, I think Bowdoin, Vassar and Skidmore all have a lot more female applicants for each spot than male.</p>
<p>As a parent of a girl who is about to go through the process I am losing patience with these threads and posts lamenting the “unfairness” of college admissions. Yes, it is unfair. Next question?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It sounds to me like you have a daughter. Best wishes to her. I have both sons and a daughter, and it’s not at all clear to me that there is any male advantage at the colleges my son likes best.</p>
<p>Among research universities, Brown and Emory give men a significant advantage. Out of HYPSM, Yale is the only one to favor men at all (judging by admit rate).</p>
<p>I don’t think it is “unfair.” There’s a widespread and badly mistaken notion out there that admission to a highly selective college is, or ought to be, a merit badge for assembling the shiniest HS GPAs and test scores. It’s not, never has been, and never will be. The top colleges have an overabundance of highly qualified candidates. They have the luxury of picking and choosing among them, and pick and choose they do. They’re under no obligation, moral, legal, or otherwise, to make fine-grained distinctions as to whether o the basis of GPA and test scores candidate A is 97% likely to succeed or only 96% likely to succeed; much less to choose the candidate who on that basis is judged likelier to succeed. Far more important to them is to assemble a diverse and vibrant class that creates the richest learning environment, and yes, the richest social and cultural environment, for those who do matriculate. In most cases that’s not a class comprised of 60% white & Asian females, even if the SAT scores and HS GPAs of the top decile of white & Asian females rejected are marginally higher than the last decile of males and URMs accepted. Unfair? No; not unless you think those rejected females have some kind of legal or moral right to be accepted over perfectly well-qualified males and URMs with slightly lower stats. But that’s certainly not how our law operates even at public institutions, and frankly I have a hard time imagining what kind of moral principles would compel that result.</p>
<p>I think that both white and Asian girls are generally in support of having an equal number of men on campus.</p>
<p>And Barristerdad, if you want an accurate hooks list, you’ll have to put recruited athletes on top. They are split 50/50.</p>
<p>Vicarious #31
If you thought it was hopeless you wouldn’t be on this thread…Obviously, either you think something can be done about it OR you are hoping someone else here will have a good idea. Hang around, buddy, and keep reading!</p>
<p>Token^^
Wow! After reading hundreds of your posts in the past year since discovering CC myself, it is an honor! Indeed, I have a daughter (and a younger son, BTW) and love them both dearly. I am a single parent and want the best for both my kids, of course.</p>
<p>However, I think society still respects a bit more our men. This bias begins generally in grade school and continues throughout high school.</p>
<p>Because our sons are naturally drawn to other interests subordinate to the academic realm, it appears that these sons are necessarily not as prepared for college as our daughters. Ergo, AdComs everywhere (in the name of gender balance?) have more room for less qualified sons—as an applicant pool—than the more qualified daughters.</p>
<p>hmom^^
Look at the original post…in no particular order…</p>
<p>“not unless you think those rejected females have some kind of legal or moral right to be accepted over perfectly well-qualified males and URMs with slightly lower stats”</p>
<p>Good point, but slightly askew. I’m talking about “qualified” males and other hooks being accepted over clearly more qualified female Asian and caucasians. Indeed, do these girls have a moral—if not a legal—right to expect equal treatment. I think they do.</p>
<p>Moreover, I think we are distracted as parents perhaps with the unlikely possibility that accepting more qualified applicants overall would lead to an imbalanced ratio among the accepted applicant pool among girls and boys?</p>
<p>I disagree, BarristerDad, with the premise that colleges and universities favor boys/men over girls/women. I do agree that several studies have shown there is a bias toward boys over girls in classroom instruction and student development BELOW THE COLLEGE LEVEL. But studies have also shown a clear bias at the secondary school level and below in favor of white and Asian kids over black and Hispanic kids. The classic example is assuming the new black kid in a predominantly white town is either not qualified or not interested in “gifted” or accelerated classes. That happens a lot. But once kids move on to college, I don’t see the gender and race bias rearing such an ugly head. </p>
<p>Again, I agree with bclintonk. The highest scoring groups on standardized tests are Asians and Jews. Jews clearly outperform other white ethnics. In the first half of the 20th Century, the Ivies and other top schools were terrified “their” vaunted centers of higher learning would be overrun by a disproportionate number of Jews displacing the favored Anglo Saxon scion of alumni and country club relationships. Some of the Ivies were accused of establishing quotas limiting the number of Jews who could be admitted. The same kind of thing is happening today, especially in California, with Asians.</p>
<p>So that’s the tough social question. Berkeley could probably fill 90% of it’s freshman class every year with Asians who had 4.0 averages in HS. The uncomfortable question is is that a good thing? Is it fair to non-Jewish whites, blacks and Hispanics? Just let the numbers fall where they fall? Or do you look for a more diverse student body? What would be the social ramifications, if any, if Berkeley became 90% Asian and Jewish and Harvard 90% Jewish and Asian? I don’t know the answer. But those are two groups, both tiny percentages of the overall American population, that are disproportionately represented at the most elite colleges and universities.</p>
<p>The same question can be applied to top LACs but with a gender slant. If Top LAC XYZ is already 65% female and growing, do you give an edge to male applicants? Is there anything wrong with giving an edge to male applicants in this situation? I don’t know the “correct” answer, if there is one, but I know how I feel. I see nothing wrong with giving an edge to male applicants when a college is disproportionately female. I see nothing wrong with giving an edge to female applicants at colleges that are disproportionately male. My gut tells me both women and men at those institutions would be grateful to see more of a balance from a social/dating standpoint, while parents and politicians trade accusations about quotas and affirmative action and bias, ad nauseum. Most students in today’s USA WANT to go to school in a diverse environment. The parents and politicians are the problem.</p>