<p>Sorry for this long post, but this question ultimately will be about the advantages of Whitman vs. Grinnell vs. Willamette.</p>
<p>In short, D needs to decide by Thursday whether to go to Whitman for three days in April to interview for an additional small merit scholarship (they already awarded her a large scholarship). The problem is that D doesnt know where she wants to go to college and wants to leave April free to visit her top choices and study for her IB tests. She visited Whitman earlier this year. Should she go again?</p>
<p>So far, D also has been accepted to Grinnell and Willamette (both with slightly more aid than Whitman). She also got a likely letter from Wellesley (a school that does not offer merit aid) and has outstanding applications with four other schools that dont offer merit aid: Williams, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and Bowdoin. </p>
<p>Because merit aid will be a significant, but not deciding, factor I suspect that her college choice may come down to (1) one high prestige school that doesnt offer aid and (2) one very fine, but maybe slightly lower prestige level, school that does offer aid. </p>
<p>So, with regards to Whitman vs. Grinnell vs. Willamette, what do you think?
Grinnell probably is the strongest academically and draws students from throughout the nation/world. It has resources to provide top notch services. D, however, found the food to be lousy and worried that the students might be more counter-cultural than she. The town only has about 9,000 people.
Willamette has the prettiest campus in the nicest town and offers the best campus food. It would be one inexpensive fight home. D liked the general environment best, though we worry a bit whether it would be academically challenging enough for her.
Whitman is somewhere in between Willamette in Grinnell is most regards. It has a nicer town than Grinnell and is closer to home. She visited some classes that were not strong, but thinks that might have been just the luck of the draw. The school is noted for having very fine teachers. </p>
<p>She either is or is not a natural Swat type and probably knows whether she would fit in at Wellesley. I am very impressed with Williams, but I'm sure the other top schools mentioned have a lot going for them.</p>
<p>In regard to the specific question, I love Whitman and would place Willamette last of those mentioned. Perhaps Grinnell has slightly better students.</p>
<p>It's been awhile since two of my relatives (daughter and second cousin) went to Grinnell and Whitman, respectively. Both loved their experience. I agree that Williamette may be a step down academically.</p>
<p>My take from the past two girls' experiences: </p>
<p>Grinnell--more academic, more counter-cultural. The food is supposed to improve with next year's new dining hall. Is your daughter interested in volunteerism or global travel? Grinnell is strong in both. Several of my daughter's friends got post-graduate Grinnell fellowships to do research in Africa.</p>
<p>Whitman--don't know as much about it, except that it's the more "normal" school. Bright kids, well-rounded. A shade less academic. Good luck!</p>
<p>I would take Grinnell hands down...more academically stimulating than either of the two and as someone noted earlier the food will be getting better. I may be biased, however, as I will be attending Grinnell next fall</p>
<p>Thank you all!. At this point, my sense is that Grinnell might be the better fit, but she is worried about its kind of counter culture rep. Perhaps the best thing is for her to visit Grinnell and Whitman plus one of the $$$East Coast$$$$ schools again! These makes for one busy April. . . </p>
<p>Chomsky, did you visit Grinnell yet? What did you think?</p>
<p>In terms of the East Coast places, my sense is Swat and Wellesley would be the better fits, although mabye a bit intense. I worry about Williams because the sports program is so competitive and she likes to play varsity sports. </p>
<p>She is not exactly "retarded."
She just wants a school that fits her well and is the right environment for her to grow. Yes, we know about USNews and all the rest. Grinnell ranks higher, but happiness is a lot more important.</p>
<p>Yes I did...and I loved it! When I visited, the culture of the school was awesome. The student body is quite quirky though...which I was looking for. When i visited, I stayed overnight with a couple of the soccer players, as I will be playing this upcoming year. One thing that fascinated me was how academics somehow found its way into many of the conversations. After I watched their game (which they won) we all went out for Chinese. As we were eating...one table was talking about some science issues (which I don't know that much about since I'm a literature person) and the table I was at was talking about William Faulkner and certain political issues which I jumped right in on and let them know my feelings. The guys really made me feel at home with my visit. I was never an outcast</p>
<p>Now about the counter culture reputation...it is a part of Grinnell. However, I didn't feel overwhelmed by it in any means. When we arrived on campus there were protests (against the war), but i expected this going into my visit. I will say though I was looking for this type of atmosphere, as i wanted to be around individuals who were passionate about different ideas and issues. I come from a pretty conservative area (which I was trying to get away from) and switching cultures didn't make me feel out of place at all</p>
<p>There is a drinking scene, etc. on campus but there is no pressure to partake. After dinner the team brought me to a soccer party and NO pressure was placed on anyone to drink when I attended...myself included. I was extremely happy about this since I don't drink. </p>
<p>What convinced me to choose Grinnell in the end was the atmosphere of the college. Everyone was so nice to me. I was allowed to visit a class, participate in the discussions, as well as voice my opinion. Many students said hi to me as they knew I was a "prospie". Even one of the soccer players said hi to me as I walked past him the next day. I never found the atmosphere at any other schools I looked at (east coast LAC included)</p>
<p>I hope this helps somewhat...If you have anymore questions feel free to ask!</p>
<p>A friend's son is loving Whitman. It's a very small school, but as you say, a bigger town the Grinnell. My son isn't a LAC type, so these are not schools he's interested in. Willammette, as you say, is beautiful, but not known to be as academically rigorous as the other two schools.<br>
I believe Whitman requires a senior project--if true, is that something she's comfortable with? I believe most Grinnellians travel for at least one term. If she's not too comfortable with the counterculture there, she might not be too happy, especially since it's a pretty small school & town.
Good luck in her thoughts & choices.</p>
<p>To answer some of the questions here . . .D would be comfortable at Swat, provided she still has some time to compete athletically. Whitman's senior project/exams would give her no worries (she is completely an IB diploma and knows that routine). Grinnell's travel orientation is a plus. In other words, she is pretty adventurous and intellectual, but happiest when she is also engaged in sports. My sense is that she should visit Grinnell and Whitman again, to figure out which is the better fit. Goodness, all this is going to take time!</p>
<p>Grinnell will have a new dining hall for the class of 2010 (aka...this fall) and so the food is supposed to be MUCH BETTER!!
Either way, I dont think food should be a deciding factor... i'm sure everybody gets sick of college food soon enough..</p>
<p>I would pick Grinnell hands down. it's awesome in every way.</p>
<p>You are likely to find Whitman a bit more athletic, and perhaps a bit more pre-professional than Grinnell. It leans (to use east coast analogies) more in a "Williams direction", Grinnell more in a "Swarthmore direction".</p>
<p>Don't be fooled by Whitman's ranking. I will bet that 98% of the folks who did the "peer assessment" have never set foot in Walla Walla, and 85% couldn't find it on a map.</p>
<p>Has anyone looked the school spending data on collegeresults.org? In all three categories, Grinnell seems to spend about 50 percent more per kid than Whitman. I don't know how good or meaningful these data are.</p>
<p>The first column of data is Student Related Expenditures/FTE
The second is Instructional Expenditures/FTE
The third is Educational & General Expenditures/FTE</p>
<p>Grinnell is rich, rich, rich (thanks, Warren Buffet, who invested the school's money). They support students in unusual ways: our daughter spent one spring break in Portland, OR, on a Habitat for Humanity project. Her cost? $l00. The school picked up the tab for plane fare and most of the expenses. </p>
<p>Our daughter was on the varsity track team, and loved it. Sports come second to academics--no pressure from coaches.</p>
<p>I think there's probably no argument that Grinnell is the best school of the three in terms of academic rigor and global exposure. (My daughter loved her semester abroad in Senegal, and like a number of her fellow graduates, is now in Peace Corps.) She has close friends in New York, Chicago and Washington, D.C.--Grinnell attracts kids from all over the country. But will your daughter like the isolation? And the comparatively nerdier atmosphere of the school? I think it often comes down to "fit"!</p>
<p>For purposes of comparison, here are the same data for three east coast schools. These schools are in higher cost markets, this may explain SOME of the difference . . .but I wonder what is going on with these data. They are from collegeresults.org</p>
<p>The first column of data is Student Related Expenditures/FTE
The second is Instructional Expenditures/FTE
The third is Educational & General Expenditures/FTE</p>
<p>What??? Willamette not rigorous? What nonsense. We all have anecdotes and here is mine. A former collegue is a Willamette alumnus. He went on to Stanford Law, again got tops grades. Later worked in a top west coast law firm and then moved on to a prosecutor's job for the emotional reward of public service. Not bad for a school that 'places last' next to Grinnell and Whitman for rigor or intelligence of the student body.</p>
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<p>Doesn't it rain all the time in Portland?<<</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Sure, but Willamette is in Salem. :-)</p>
<p>Actually, if you want to have any town to speak of, Willamette is the clear choice among these three fine schools. Grinnell is about 1/3rd the size of Walla Walla, and Walla Walla is about 1/4th the size of Salem. Even then (speaking as a former Salem resident), I wouldn't exactly describe Salem as any sort of rockin' west coast Big Apple, but it's way ahead of the other two towns.</p>
<p>Even schools that are not as "rigourous" can have some top students attending, but the general level of academics may not be as high as at other schools. My DD visited a few classes at Willamette and thought it a very nice school. She did not, however, feel that the student body was very academically focused or that the 3 classes she viewed (not a large sample, obviously) were particularly challenging or intense enough for her. It depends on what your kid wants. (FWIW, my DS does not want intense or very academically focused - and he is plenty smart and hardworking. If he wanted small schools in Washington, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Willamette to him.)</p>