<p>I think most people on this forum that talk about the need to have a “safety school” on their list are implying that everyone should consider at least one non-auditioned theater (or musical theater) program that they would be happy to attend at a school that is also an academic and financial “safety” for them, in case they do not get accepted into any of the other auditioned programs on their list. So in that respect, D had none. That’s what I was attempting to say, but I agree that D did have other “options” under consideration, even though they did not include the traditional “safety school” plan. Everyone does need to have some type of plan laid out that works best for them. And of course some kids are willing to take more risks than others, so what’s good for the goose may not be good for the gander, as they say!</p>
<p>I think we parents should take a pledge to strike the term “safety school” from our nomenclature. And I mean this even when thinking about auditioned vs. non-auditioned theatre/MT programs.</p>
<p>The term “safety school” sets our kids up for thinking like that school is “less than” when often it could actually be the right school that they will just love. At barely 18 years old and getting caught up in all of the hype about various other schools, how the heck can they know that? If we are handicapping a school by calling it a safety, we’ve already cut that school off at the knees. And then we ask them to love it, after we’ve already implied that it’s inferior? How reasonable is that request? We are kidding ourselves. I’m just as guilty as the next person. I’ve said, “find a safety school that you love” to both of my kids. Let’s be honest. It’s a bit of an oxymoron if we word it like that. We need to pick better words.</p>
<p>Can’t we just say, “likely” or “fit” and lose the “safety” even if we know that some schools are “likelier-er” or “fitter-er”? Likely and Fit suggests that a school is saying that based on your track record and how we evaluate students for our program, you belong here. That’s so much nicer than just thinking you ended up at a school because you won the booby prize. </p>
<p>I blew this already this fall with my senior son. I regret it because at least one of his quote, “safety schools” I know would be a great school for him and he’d flourish there and love it. I wasn’t careful enough with my words I suppose partly because I am thinking he’ll get into some of the other schools on his list and yes, he probably will. But if that is not the case, he’ll not be as proud as he should be if he marches off to his “safety” next fall. His lack of genuine enthusiasm will be entirely because I, and his college counselor used the “s-word” – and ruined what should otherwise be a proud moment for him. In the end, I have no doubt if that’s where he ends up, he’ll love it within a month of being there. But why handicap it from the get go? - Take the pledge.</p>
<p>halflokum, a good substitute for the use of the word, “safety” is “sure bet.” That is what a safety school is…a school that the student will definitely be admitted to. “Likely” is another pretty good term, but can be slightly fuzzy as it implies not for sure. “Fit” is not as accurate because reaches and matches can be very good fits too. </p>
<p>As a college counselor, I ALWAYS recommend an applicant have two sure bet schools. For BFA in MT applicants, that would mean two non-audition schools (BAs) that are ALSO academic sure bets. My advisees have all done this. My own daughter who was not an applicant for MT (just regular colleges), who applied to some of the most selective colleges in the country, had two safeties, but these were still pretty selective schools and would not be safeties for many kids, but were for her at the time (Conn College and Lehigh). amtc posted that Skidmore was her D’s safety which is another good example of a safety school that was a sure bet for her high academic achiever, but would not be a safety for all students. </p>
<p>That said, and I am quite hesitant to admit this, given that I firmly believe in having safety schools on the list, my MT kid did NOT have ANY safety schools, just like ATLAST’s daughter who posted her story. My MT kid applied to 8 BFA in MT programs. Yes, it sounds nuts to not have a safety and maybe we were nuts, though several of her highly talented MT friends at the time, also only applied to BFA in MT schools, like her. Yes, I was plenty nervous about the odds, but I did feel that she was firmly in the running for a BFA in MT (I know I am her mom, but I think she had some benchmarks that helped with this assessment), and so I believed at least ONE program would come through, but didn’t know which that would be or how many. It turned out she got into a majority of her programs, and had good choices, including her first choice MT program. I suppose this was quite risky. On the other hand, I agree with ATLAST that my D’s college list made sense for HER, but I would not recommend it for all candidates. She is not unique in this way, but just saying that every applicant needs the right list that fits their academic and artistic odds and so on. One person’s list should not match another’s. </p>
<p>Given the very long odds to get into BFA programs, I think an OVERALL recommendation for MOST (but perhaps not all) MT applicants is to have at least one sure bet non-audition option on the list. Having safety schools on the list does NOT mean a lack of confidence or competitiveness but simply makes sense given the odds. Still, if a student is closed out of ALL the BFA programs on their list, it might give some pause as to if they were competitive for a BFA admission (assuming their list was an appropriate balanced one). But people make it in this field coming out of BA programs, as well as not even majoring in MT! </p>
<p>ATLAST’s daughter’s strategy worked successfully for HER, as did my D’s. But again, building a college list is very individualized and it is not a matter of just finding a bunch of MT schools to apply to. That is why I don’t like evaluating someone’s college list on this forum because we’d have to know a LOT about someone’s artistic skill set and their academic profile. Building a college list requires very careful consideration of those factors, as well as “fit,” and needs to be very well balanced in terms of odds of the various programs themselves. </p>
<p>I do believe that when choosing “safety / sure bet” colleges, a student must find ones that they truly would be happy to attend (even if not their first choice school) and that these schools should not just be tacked onto the list as consolation prizes. For example, some people tack on their state university as a safety even if they have no interest in attending it. A lot of energy should be put into finding some sure bet options that the student truly likes enough to consider. I know my older D (non-MT major) truly liked her safety schools. While she was offered a full ride to our state university, that school did not fit her and so she chose two safety schools that she liked better.</p>
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<p>I know soozievt and other CC old-timers already know this, but I want to sneak in a quick reminder for newer folks that not all BA programs are “safeties” or “sure bets” or “fallback positions” for kids who fail to be admitted to auditioned BFAs. Some of the most talented MTs I know, including many who were admitted to top BFAs, purposely chose a BA over any BFA or Conservatory option. I can assure you that Northwestern, Yale, Brown, USC, UCLA and I’m sure other fine Theatre/MT BA programs are not filled with BFA-rejects, although that is sometimes implied here. :)</p>
<p>One of my kids fell in love with her “safety” school, attended with great merit aid, and graduated Phi Beta Kappa. She was not put off by the term at all. Maybe it is an issue of maturity for a given kid, though. I will say our GC recently has started using the term “likely school” as a substitute for “safety school”.</p>
<p>MomCares is absolutely correct!! I know many applicants who WERE competitive for BFA programs (and either didn’t apply to them or got into them and turned them down) and chose a BA path instead, such as Northwestern, Brown, Yale, etc. So, for sure, BAs are not all necessarily “safety” or fallback options!!! </p>
<p>My post earlier was directed at applicants who only want to attend a BFA in MT program (which was the case with my D) and so their list is all BFAs, and in most cases, they should also add one or two non-audition BAs that are academic safeties (which NU, Brown, etc. are surely not for anyone). I believe my D would have been competitive for Northwestern, which I think is a fantastic school for theater and MT, but she only wanted a BFA. Not to mention that Northwestern is hardly a “fall back” option!!!</p>
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<p>Your amazing D would be competitive anywhere, but I just wanted to remind folks here that the exact opposite is true for many talented MTs… “I believe my D would have been competitive for XX top BFA, which I think is a fantastic school for theater and MT, but she only wanted a BA.” :)</p>
<p>I agree…there are lots of kids who are competitive for BFA programs who want and prefer a BA. </p>
<p>It is good that you debunk the idea that BA is a safety option only. </p>
<p>Still, I think the topic here was dealing more with those who strongly prefer and are seeking a BFA degree and in terms of building that sort of list, BAs come up as the safety non-audition fallback. It is a different sort of college list building from a kid who is happy with either a BFA or a BA, in which case, I recommend they have a well balanced list of BFAs and likewise a range of BAs on their list, often resulting in a longer list of perhaps 14 schools.</p>
<p>Thanks, soozievt, for sharing that your MT kid had all BFAs on the list. My MT kid does also and while I’m sure people think she’s nuts (and me for not pushing a sure bet school), it’s the list that works for her.</p>
<p>My D also has all BFAs plus one audition BA; however, 4 of the BFAs are a later audition after 1 or 1-1/2 years. I’m actually very impressed with a couple of these programs.</p>
<p>Although you can’t call all State Universities safeties, I think everyone should apply to their own state university. It is always a realistic option to see how much money you would have to pay for a state university compared to some of the other more expensive schools, and sometimes the application fee is waived for in-state students.</p>
<p>My daughter also had no safeties; all were audition programs. I really really tried to get her to apply to our state’s university which had a non-audition program, but she refused. I guess she would have had to take a gap year and figure out what to do next if she hadn’t gotten in anywhere. But boy was I relieved when she got that first acceptance!</p>
<p>Marbleheader, you have a good point about the state universities. But I am more into “fit” and not everyone’s state university fits their needs and interests. For example, for my older kid (not MT), she thought she wanted to major in architecture and our state university doesn’t offer it. She also was hoping to ski race in college and our state U’s ski team is one of the top ones in the country and while she is a very good racer, she isn’t elite enough to make the top team in the country and would never be recruited for it as most recruits attended ski academy high schools. I could go on for other reasons it wasn’t a good fit. The school is great. My D built her list without it and found two other safeties. However, our state U gives out a free ride scholarship to every valedictorian in the state and she was the val at our HS and so was given the free ride plus a spot in the Honors College, even though she had no intentions of applying. Yes, she turned down a free ride because the school was not a good fit, even though it is a great school. </p>
<p>For my MT kid, our state U doesn’t offer a program in MT. They have a regular theater BA major, but nothing too special in that regard. Both my kids think that the school is located in an ideal place (Burlington, VT) to go to college, and always said had they not grown up in this state, they would find that a cool place for their college years. Having grown up in rural VT, they (and we as parents) wanted to spend their college years in a different setting and we are glad they did. </p>
<p>Basically, I think many state Us are fabulous and many are affordable (and some are not even truly safeties for everyone…our state U is not), but I still believe that one’s college list should be made up of schools that fit the candidate, whether they are their reaches OR safeties and pick schools THAT way, rather than simply saying, “I know I can get into state U and so that is my safety.” If the state U is a good fit and a safety to boot, I’m all for it. I just think that EVERY school on a student’s list, particularly the so called safeties, should be schools the student would consider attending. Otherwise, they should not put it on their list.</p>
<p>UC Irvine was my safety school and after getting in to 4 BFA programs I decided to come here instead. It’s a BA to BFA so we’ll see what happens but I have to say the students are certainly not a bunch of BFA rejects. There are people who got into various programs including NYU, Emerson, and Boco. Usually money and location make them choose UCI. It’s also a commutable distance from LA so we have Disney and Nick kids and students with agents who actively work on television. I heard about one who took time off to work on Broadway. It’s not all that safe either anymore. People with the grades to get in got rejected last year.</p>
<p>SoozieVT - totally agree with what you are saying. The state U has to be a fit, but I do think it is good to have a reasonably priced option for a reality-check financial comparison. And as Actor12 points out it worked for him/her (sorry Actor12, don’t know your gender!!) because of the finances, as well as the fit. And as far as your State U goes, every year, we have about 20 kids from our high school that head there for all kinds of reasons - it is a great school!</p>
<p>I feel my family and I have re-assessed what is important in a college list since our first child. Her list was very selective, but included a state U. When things didn’t work out at her top pick school (was not a fit, but got all the oooos and aahhhs from the other competitive kids in her school), she moved back home and took 6 gen ed courses at a state U that all transferred to her present LAC, and at a great savings!! She is happy at her new school, and YES, it is because of the fit! HAHA - so round and round we go!</p>
<p>marbleheader…UVM is a GREAT school. It is not even like a typical state U in that so many kids attend from out of state. In fact, I grew up in NJ and I applied to UVM back in the day (but never attended) and never knew back then that I’d spend my adult life up here (the past 32 years). I have even taught a grad school course for UVM. My kids have plenty of friends who have attended. The size of the school feels like a large LAC or a small university, unlike most state U’s. My kids think Burlington would be an awesome place to go to college, had they not grown up in this state. And yes, state U’s can be a wonderful financial safety! Our state U simply did not fit what my kids were looking for and didn’t offer either of their majors. </p>
<p>Glad to hear things worked out in a round about way for your daughter and that she is happy at her present LAC! </p>
<p>actor12…you had a great option with UC-Irvine that many MT students don’t have in their states! Also, for West Coast kids, it can be a little tough because most of the MT programs are in the Eastern half of the country and perhaps they don’t want to travel so far away for college. UC-Irvine is a wonderful option and has the BFA track down the line. I wish we had something like that in our state. It is also an academically selective university and the financial aspect can be a lot better than private.</p>
<p>Soozievt, as a VT kid, I completely agree! UVM gets a lot of out of state kids, but I’m really looking forward to living in a less rural place and farther from home (it is 30 minutes from my house). Plus, it doesn’t have MT and I haven’t heard great things about their BA in theatre. It would make sense to apply to an in-state school, but I guess this state is kind of a special case. (I’ve been saying this for years and it’s really good to hear it from a college counselor, haha!)</p>
<p>^^Abigail, Johnson State has MT, but I don’t think it would be fitting for someone who is a good academic student. And it surely is rural, unlike UVM.</p>
<p>Oh, I knew that from the list of colleges by state! Is it totally inappropriate for me not to apply there? I really really do not want a rural environment and it’s stupid but I also feel it would be a waste of my grades (not Harvard material or anything but they’re decent). If I could get into a decently endowed school, I would potentially get a bunch of financial aid (I’ve done the aid calculator things) so that could be a possible financial safety I think.</p>
<p>Abigail – I know you are looking to get away from “rural” … but in NE, look at the programs at Plymouth State and UNH in NH. Both programs have grads on national and international tours, off Broadway, in regional theatre, etc… I used to work at Plymouth State before I mived to JMU in VA. At Plymouth State the students get loads of high level music and vocal coaching, and wonderful performance experiences and one-on-one mentorship. Not to say this is not the case at UMH, I am just more familiar with Plymouth State because friends and colleagues (and my mother ;-)) work there, and when I am home in NH I see shows there. They are often strong.</p>