<p>Alexandre:</p>
<p>Have you ever visited the University of Notre Dame?</p>
<p>I have been to Notre Dame many times. Nice campus, boring locale.</p>
<p>south bend sucks</p>
<p>I'm not sure why people would go through the hassle of applications to schools they know they won't go to due to finances. Just seems like a lot of work for nothing to me. Marcc, Alexandre is right in saying that Michigan is at least as good as Notre Dame, but I'm sad Michigan doesn't meet aid enough to pay for the tuition of students like yourself. I'm hoping you're a rare case. This is something Michigan really needs to improve on i think.</p>
<p>ditto, but money is money. If ND is kicking UM's butt on fin aid, I wonder how many students will skip pricey Ann Arbor for a more sedate, but affordable South Bend.</p>
<p>This comes as a bit of a surprise to me. I've always seen stats that say Michigan meets 90% of need. Is that averaged over in-staters and out-of-staters, but they're more lenient for in-staters?</p>
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I'm not sure why people would go through the hassle of applications to schools they know they won't go to due to finances
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<p>I applied to Michigan thinking that I would get some finaid. I would go to UM if they would give me some money.</p>
<p>Maguo, if you need money because your parents cannot afford $38,000/year, I can understand your dilemna. On the other hand, if you want money because you don't think Michigan is worth paying $38,000 for, then I would say Michigan is probably not the right place for you.</p>
<p>i will admit that it is a combination of both. My parent will definitely have trouble paying $38000, but I'm not dirt poor. I also don't think that UM is worth paying for when U of FL is nearly free. At this point, I don't even think UM is worth the 38k in comparison with a private school like Duke or Cornell at 45k.</p>
<p>It really depends what you want tyo accomplish. If UF can open the doors you want opened for free, I would say paying over $15,000/year to attend a university, any university, would be pointless. You would be crazy to pay $80,000-$180,000 over 4 years to attend Cornell, Duke or Michigan if you simply want to work for a large manufacturing company or if you want to go to a regular graduate program upon graduation. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if your professional or academic goals can be greatly helped by going to an elite university, saving money now by attending UF over a top university may be something you will regret in the future.</p>
<p>As for what qualifies a university as one of those "elite" universities depends on one's point of view. As far as most exclusive companies and elite graduate schools are concerned, Michigan is one of the select few universities that belongs at the top of the food chain...so to speak. I personally chose Michigan over Brown, Cal, Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, LSE (in the UK), McGill (in Canada), Northwestern, Penn, Toronto and UCL (in the UK). I have no regrets. If I had to chose among all those schools all over again, I would still pick Michigan in a heartbeat. Michigan was not my obvious choice back when I was deciding mind you. In fact, had it not been for an excellent group of advisors, I would probably have picked Chicago, Columbia or Penn over Michigan. That's right, Michigan was my fourth choice. Chief among my advisors while I was chosing those schools back in the winter of 1992 were my parents (Columbia and Georgetown alums), my sisters (Georgetown and McGill alums) my uncles (MIT and Wharton alums), my dad's boss (the CEO of BNP Paribas and an HEC and INSEAD alum) and close family friends (including a small restaurant owner, a Brown university History professor, Chicago and Harvard Econ professors, executives at the World Bank and the IMF and the then-CEO of Goldman Sachs). In the end, they all convinced me to visit the 14 campuses I had been accepted to and to chose the university I liked the best because from an academic angle, all 14 universities were pretty much equal.</p>
<p>If your point of view is as such that Duke and Cornell are worth paying $45,000 to attend but that Michigan isn't worth paying $38,000 to attend, then you should definitely not go to Michigan. There is nothing worse than regretting one's university decision.</p>
<p>Alexandre, I totally understand where your coming from. Do you have any statistics on med school acceptance rates for UM, UF, Duke, Harvard, and Washington U (st. Louis)?</p>
<p>I do not have such statistics. I think Michigan placement into med-schools ranges between 60% and 70%. Duke I think is at 80%-90%. But that's because Duke's student body, on average, is slightly better. However, the acceptance rate for pre-meds with 3.5+ GPAs at Michigan is close to 100% and each year, Michigan Medical school (one of the top 10 medical schools in the nation) accepts roughly 100 Michigan undergrads, of which roughly half chose to enroll.</p>
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I do not have such statistics. I think Michigan placement into med-schools ranges between 60% and 70%. Duke I think is at 80%-90%. But that's because Duke's student body, on average, is slightly better. However, the acceptance rate for pre-meds with 3.5+ GPAs at Michigan is close to 100% and each year, Michigan Medical school (one of the top 10 medical schools in the nation) accepts roughly 100 Michigan undergrads, of which roughly half chose to enroll.
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<p>Alexandre, I am not questioning your words, but I am really skeptical about those numbers. I actually hope that is how it really is, but wonder if the truth is a bit harsher? For example, the Class of 2005 is constituted of 51 students and the Class of 2004 is constituted of 35 students from U-M. Is there a reason for the large fluctuation? </p>
<p>100 accepted from U-M...wow! That's more than half the class. But of course not everyone went, so that's pretty darn good for U-M grads. 100 accepted out of 700 (this is a typical U-M premed pool from AAMC.com) applied = 14 percent. WOW! I am pretty impressed. Again I really hope this is how it is. Is there any way to confirm this, Alexandre? Perhaps the medical school has the numbers? </p>
<p>Here's a link: <a href="http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/admissions/medclassprofiles.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.med.umich.edu/medschool/admissions/medclassprofiles.htm</a></p>
<p>I said "roughly" 100 Stanford_dude. I am sure some years, Michigan medical school accepts fewer than 75 Michigan students and other years, Michigan medical school probably accepts close to if not more than 100 Michigan students. By and large, generally speaking, 50% of Michigan undergrads accepted into one of Michigan's graduate programs ends up enrolling. So if last year, 51 Michigan students enrolled in Michigan's medical school, that means anywhere between 80 and 100 Michigan students were admitted into the Michigan medical school. </p>
<p>The other 50% generally go to another graduate school because they:</p>
<p>1) Lack the finances to attend Michigan. I'd say that's probably the main reason some students attend other graduate school. Some admitted even decide not to go to graduate school at all because they changed their minds or because it is too cost prohibitive.</p>
<p>2) Want a change of scenery and to experience a new university. I know, this sounds like blasphemy, but it happens. Some students have a great 4 years at Michigan, but they simply want to experience another university for their graduate studies.</p>
<p>3) Got into a pogram that they think may be better. In the case of medicine, Michigan is one of the top 10 medical schools, so not many medical schools are better. The only medical programs that are probably better are Harvard and Johns Hopkins. But medical schools like Chicago, Columbia, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Penn, Stanford, UCLA, UCSF, Washington U. and Yale arejust as good as Michigan in Medicine and probably attract many Michigan students, if only for a change in scenery. </p>
<p>Now this is purely speculative mind you, since the medical school does not say how many students are admitted, just how many enrolled. However, the Law school does provide a great deal of detail. For example, last year, 107 Michigan students got into Michigan Law school and 65 (61%) of them decided to enroll. That's not bad mind you. Only 75% of Michigan students who got into Yale Law decided to attend Yale and only 50% of Michigan students who got into Stanford Law decided to attend Stanford. But the numbers are pretty obvious. Below are the number of Michigan students who were admitted into and enrolled into the following top 15 Law Schools:</p>
<p>University of Michigan Law: 107 Michigan students were admitted, 65 enrolled
Harvard University Law: 16 Michigan students admitted, 13 enrolled
Northwestern University Law: 29 Michigan students admitted, 13 enrolled
University of Chicago Law: 18 Michigan students were admitted, 7 enrolled
Columbia University Law: 23 Michigan students were admitted, 7 enrolled
Georgetown University Law: 52 Michigan students were admitted, 7 enrolled
NYU Law: 30 Michigan students admitted, 6 enrolled
University of Virginia Law: 15 Michigan students were admitted, 5 enrolled
Cornell University Law: 23 Michigan students were admitted, 4 enrolled
Yale University Law: 4 Michigan students were admitted, 3 enrolled
UCLA Law: 16 Michigan students were admitted, 3 enrolled
Stanford University Law: 4 Michigan students were admitted, 2 enrolled
University of Pennsylvania Law: 11 Michigan students were admitted, 2 enrolled
Duke University Law: 22 Michigan students were admitted, 2 enrolled
UC-Berkeley Law: 5 Michigan students were admitted, 0 enrolled</p>
<p>Basically, 75 Michigan students enrolled in top 15 Law schools other than Michigan. 42 Michigan students who were admitted into Michigan Law chose not to attend. It is fair to assume that a large chunk of those 42 students were among the 75 who went to other top 15 Law schools. </p>
<p>By and large though, Michigan's placement into top graduate schools is always impressive. Think about it...130 Michigan students (that we know of) have enrolled in top 10 (as far as I am concerned, there are 15 Law schools that compete for top 10 honors) Law schools. More than another 100 enrolled in top 25 but not top 10 Law schools like Notre Dame, George Washington, UT-Austin, UNC, Vanderbilt, Emory, Boston College etc...</p>
<p>Here's the link:</p>
<p>Damn, that is impressive. I remember one poster (NYao, but dont know how reliable he is, haha) saying that Michigan is horrible for premed because sooo many people there ARE premed, and that people with 3.6 GPA and 32 MCAT didn't get in ANYWHERE. That was the main thing that scared me, but apparently medical school is a very complicated process.</p>
<p>Michigan is tied for second place for the number of premeds (around 690). Still it manages to place about 50-60 percent into med schools, and it doesn't artifically inflate that number like other schools because it cannot stop students who aren't strong enough from applying, right? If so, that is quite outstanding for a public university and speaks much of Michigan as a whole.</p>
<p>Just to be clear here, Michigan doesn't turn people away based on ability to pay. At least not domestically. They're pretty much need-blind when it comes to admissions. Since someone asked, Michigan meets 100% of resident students' need. It doesn't meet all the need of nonresidents.</p>
<p>What are people comparing Michigan to when they declare their financial aid "pathetic?" Have you looked at Michigan's package versus other publics in the Big Ten? Compare how much grant aid versus how much loan comprises the average package. Michigan does better by resident students AND nonresident students. Among nonresidents, look at the gap (between need and aid). Unmet need at Michigan is a smaller amount than the othert Big Ten schools--despite the fact that the same family would have a higher need at Michigan than at Penn State, Indiana, Wisconsin, etc (due to higher tuition). I don't have comparisons to other publics like UNC, UVa, Berkeley, etc.-- if someone has them it'd be good to share.</p>
<p>Comparing Michigan's financial aid to that of a private college that doesn't have to offer instate tuition to 65% of each incoming class--that seems like a skewed comparison to me. Michigan won't stack up as well. The reasons seem pretty obvious.</p>
<p>Would Michigan like to offer better aid? Is Michigan concerned about how nonresident students with need have to make up that "gap?" You bet. In addition to taking a closer look at overall aid policies, they're also making scholarships a big push in the current Capital Campaign.</p>
<p>Michigan's placement into Medical school is 60%-70% (not 50%-60%) and it is impressive indeed conidering Michigan is a huge university. And yes, Michigan, like any state school, cannot manipulate any of its data, from SAT scores (privates one average raise their means by more than 40 points by mixing and matching the different sections of the test) to graduate school admissions rates. Many private schools will "discourage" some students from applyng to medical or law school to keep that 80%-90% placement rate from dropping. State schools cannot and should not do that.</p>
<p>I've got an EFC of 4500 and I was not told I was supposed to send the CSS Profile to Michigan. I am waiting on acceptance/rejection from Northwestern. if I get in at Northwestern, it's hello Chicago and goodbye Detroit suburbs. Although, it's never goodbye to the Pistons or the Red Wings.</p>
<p>Why anybody would chose Northwestern over Michigan is beyond my conprehension! hehe</p>
<p>the number of students in the Michigan med school from umich undergrad is not impressive at all. Every good university with a medical school accepts more undergrads than other schools. You are guaranteed an interview at Michigan if you attend umich undergrad with a 3.5 science and cum. gpa and 32 MCAT. its pretty hard and it doesn't mean you'll get in. Your best route is going for a direct 6/7/8 year program out of high school. It matters very little where you attend college for medical school, it matters most that you get the GPA and the MCAT scores with the relevant ECs and Good recomendations, which is easier at less competitive schools.
THE ABSOLUTE WORST THING U CAN DO IS BE PREMED AND ENGINEERING MAJOR. remember this.</p>