<p>Donemom (post #16): It's common at Yale & Princeton, too.</p>
<p>Supporting Marite's opinion on magazines discovering a new easy niche that is probably highly profitable as it requires very little research, very little costs, and generates instant attention by naming the "research" the NEW Ivies or the NEW Harvard. This type of "research" is also eminently reproducible year after year: stick the names of the 100 top ranked Doctoral Universities and LAC's on the back of two decks of cards, shuffle well, and deal 25 cards. Voila, an instant new ranking. Repeating year after a year will guarantee sufficient changes to make the work appear to be legitimate. </p>
<p>No surprise that this is penned by the staff of Newsweek/Kaplan! That organization is not about to run out of clueless National Enquirer-type journalists masquerading as education gurus. Hello Jay!</p>
<p>Enjoy! </p>
<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14325172/%5B/url%5D">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14325172/</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
25 New Ivies </p>
<p>The nation's elite colleges these days include more than Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Why? It's the tough competition for all the top students. That means a range of schools are getting fresh bragging rights. </p>
<p>By Barbara Kantrowitz and Karen Springen
Newsweek </p>
<p>Aug. 21-28, 2006 issue - You could call it a classic case of supply meeting demand. A generation ago, elite schools were a clearly defined group: the eight schools in the Ivy League, along with such academic powerhouses as Stanford, the University of Chicago, MIT and Caltech. Smaller liberal-arts colleges—like Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, Swarthmore and Wesleyan—were the destinations of choice for top students who preferred a more intimate campus. But in the past few decades, the number of college-bound students has skyrocketed, and so has the number of world-class schools. The demand for an excellent education has created an ever-expanding supply of big and small campuses that provide great academics and first-rate faculties. </p>
<p>The bottom line: that one "perfect" school need not break a student's heart. The colleges on the following list—the "New Ivies"—are beneficiaries of the boom in top students. We selected them based on admissions statistics as wellas interviews with administrators, faculty, students and alumni. In some cases, admissions directors have also provided examples of "overlap" schools—rivals for applicants to the colleges on our list. </p>
<p>Boston College
Bowdoin College
Carnegie Mellon
Claremont Colleges: Harvey Mudd and Pomona
Colby College
Colgate University
Davidson College
Emory University
Kenyon College
Macalester College
University of Michigan
New York University
UNC - Chapel Hill, N.C.
Notre Dame University
Olin College of Engineering
Reed College
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Rice University
University of Rochester
Skidmore College
Tufts University
University of California, Los Angeles
Vanderbilt University
University of Virginia
Washington University in St. Louis
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Interesting list but Duke and Northwestern arent on this list. Why?</p>
<p>Tutu, its probably because theyre considered Ivy caliber already. They are already considered highly prestigious so theyre not in need of attention...the article is trying to bring to the forefront some lesser known or less highly regarded colleges.</p>
<p>OK, thanks, MallomarCookie .</p>
<p>CHEERS - <<i sooooo="" wish="" there="" was="" the="" b="" team="" equivalent="" of="" harvard="" so="" that="" my="" boys="" could="" attend="" as="" undergrads.="">></i></p><i sooooo="" wish="" there="" was="" the="" b="" team="" equivalent="" of="" harvard="" so="" that="" my="" boys="" could="" attend="" as="" undergrads.="">
<p>There are actually MANY on the so-called B team.............. seek and ye shall find...........</p>
</i>
<p>"Notre Dame University" Glad to see this on the list, but could they at least get the name right?</p>
<p>I find it kind of hard to understand how so many parents on CC look down on other parents for wanting their kid to go to a prestigious school. I'm not a parent yet but as a parent I would assume you want a school that will open up the most doors for your child in the start of their career. As hard as it is for some people to admit it, the most prestigious schools do open up more doors as compared with other less prestigious schools of relatively equal academic caliber (i.e. a top Ivy vs. a great LAC). In the long run it might not matter what school you went to (someone who is bound to succeed will succeed coming from any university) but, in my opinion, the most prestigious schools just open up more options and as a parent, I would assume, that this is what most parents would want for their child. Obviously I'm not advocating trying to force a school on your child or pushing them to go to a school they don't want to go to but I don't think there is anything wrong with WANTING your child to go to a prestigious university (as they DO open up more options INITIALLY as compared with other equality good, less prestigious universities)...I don't think it's something to be looked down upon like many parents on this site do.</p>
<p>I don't think it's "looking down on" other parents; it's being realistic, and it's not putting that kind of pressure on or creating expectations a child's not necessarily desirous of or able to fulfill. </p>
<p>When the most prestigious schools are only taking 10-20% of the applicants they get, it's not likely to be healthy to want and expect your child to win that lottery - unless it's also something they want. You have to also consider fit, first and foremost (to suit the child), instead of what's most prestigious (which may be designed to suit the parent more than the child).</p>
<p>Further to avwh's comments, I find the attitude of many of the parents of my kids' school friends to be... unfortunate at best. One parent railed at me over the fact that the school college counselor suggested her son consider Pomona a couple years ago. She was livid that the counselor would suggest "such a low-quality institution" for her son. :( Similarly, when other parents ask me for the list of schools my S#2's is applying to, their smiles drop and they sort of want to get away from me when I read them the list; they assume, based on my S#1's list and school, and the prevailing attitude at the high school, that he will of COURSE be applying to "all the top schools", and they seem to exhibit some form of pity for those who do not. Balderdash. I want S#2 to be proud of his choices, and thrilled (and SUPPORTED) in his eventual selection. Everyone deserves that. I don't respect parents who assume that since they have only "Top Schools" on their student's list, they can or should "feel sorry for" someone who would neither qualify for nor fit at those schools. </p>
<p>(Every one of the parents I know with this attitude are foreign-born, by the way. That is only my anecdotal experience, it is not meant to generalize. But I wish there were some way I could help them understand that the universe of great schools extends well beyond HYPSM, and for some students it consists solely of schools these parents never heard of. If they never heard of the schools, it seems to be their impression that the schools are "sub-standard" or something, and they should pity those who "have to settle". THAT is what I dislike, not that their students (or my own S#1!) attend the top schools.)</p>
<p>Colleges come in complex packages. Any number of great (if slightly different) results can come from any number of institutions. The notion that there is a single scale to which all values can be reduced and then ranked, or that there is one master factor that trumps all others, is silly and immature.</p>
<p>I went to one of those "most prestigious schools". I loved it; it was perfect for me. I fell in love with my wife there, and fell in love with all kinds of ideas. I had doors opened for me, and I took advantage of them and learned a lot, although ultimately those particular doors had only a tangential relationship to my life. My wife would say all the same things, too. We loved our college and our friends there, but what has mattered most has been the quality of the experience we shared, not its instrumental benefits. (Just to be clear, in our cases the conventional wisdom has been true: graduate school is more important.)</p>
<p>Both of us got to go to that "most prestigious school" with a minimum of anxiety, however. I applied to two colleges, confident that I would get into one or both. In my wife's case, she applied in her junior year of high school and it was the only college that accepted her. We didn't scheme and counsel and amass points and look over our shoulders; we didn't even sweat much. We didn't feel we were submitting to a giant roulette wheel. The experience of pursuing those institutions today is so unpleasant as to color the whole experience: Even if you are accepted, how can you possibly be worthy? Or worse, how can you be convinced that you AREN'T "worthy", merely blessed with temporary grace?</p>
<p>What we want for our children -- and, I hope, what you will want for yours -- is that they feel as excited and fulfilled by their college experience as we did, that they feel competent and educated at the end of it, and that they not be traumatized by the process of getting from here to there. There is not one single way of doing that, and not one "best" way either. As far as I can tell, my alma mater is as perfect as it ever was, but I'm damned if I would tell my kids that that's the only righteous path, because it isn't. And I'm thankful for that, because things would be horrible and desperate if it were.</p>
<p>I complete understand what all of you are telling me...I agree that fit is more important that prestige (I applied to many less prestigious schools because of fit - Penn was actually the only Ivy I applied to and I chose it because it was the best fit for me) and obviously expecting (placing that kind of pressure) your child to go to one of these schools is unhealthy but it just seems that for the past almost 4 years that I've been on CC I've come to realize that a lot of CC parents tend to look down on other parents who want, but don't expect, their child to go to a prestigious school (labeling them as prestige-whores, etc. all because they want what they believe is best for their child). I've just always tried to find a justification as to why a lot of parents on here seem to at least convey this kind of attitude...</p>
<p>Every one of the parents I know with this attitude are foreign-born</p>
<p>Mootmom -- I know that kind of attitude can be irritating. Just keep in mind, that a lot of these parents come from societies where the ONLY way to succeed is a top school. They're simply bringing their own cultural biases here, and no amount of explaining will change their minds that a kid going to Pomona isn't a blemish on anyone's parenting, nor that it doesn't represent any kind of failure on part of the student. America is a confusing place - and few things are as confusing (but in my mind as flexible & as accomodating) as our educational system.</p>
<p>I think you've answered your own question: If some set of parents desperately want their children to go to a prestigious school simply because it is a prestigious school, they are being prestige-whores. That's what being a prestige-whore is.</p>
<p>Of course, in the grand scheme of things, prestige is generally earned. Do I think Harvard is a great university? Of course I do. Would I be happy if my son were able to go to college there? Sure. I'm not in the least embarassed to say that. Moreover, I think the Harvard parents on CC are pretty proud of their kids there (and their other kids elsewhere, too). But do I think he "deserves" or "needs" to go there, or that improving his chances to go there ought to dictate how he spends his time in high school? No. Am I confident that there are many great (though less prestigious than Harvard) institutions where he can be a happy and successful person? You bet. </p>
<p>No one, not even a superstar Harvard undergraduate, can take advantage of all the things that combine to make Harvard what it is. No one can take advantage of all the things that lend prestige to Dartmouth, Berkeley, Michigan, Chicago . . . or for that matter Amherst or Middlebury. It's great to be inside the world's largest cookie factory, but you can still only eat so many cookies, and you're not going to be any thinner in the 20th largest cookie factory.</p>
<p>By the way, I haven't been here that long, but I haven't noticed a whole lot of parents with either attitude you mention: desperate for the Ivy League, or critical of that. By and large, it seems to be kids who over-value the Ivies. Parents (and other kids) push back on that some, but this whole thread is a testament to the fact that people get grumpy when others try to make School B look good by deprecating School H.</p>
<p>Is Cornell College on the list? I find that school very appealing.</p>
<p>Whenever I hear debates about the 'worth' of Ivy League schools, I flash on a quote from a Harvard grad -- "For me, Harvard opened doors I didn't even know existed."</p>
<p>"For me, Harvard opened doors I didn't even know existed."</p>
<p>Yes, but virtually any school will accomplish that.</p>
<p>*"For me, Harvard opened doors I didn't even know existed."</p>
<p>Yes, but virtually any school will accomplish that.*</p>
<p>It would be more accurate to say "college/university" opened doors I didn't even know existed.</p>
<p>Maybe - maybe not. I myself have witnessed examples of employers interviewing a candidate for a job strictly because he/she was an Ivy grad. In one case, the Ivy grad got the job despite having virtual no post-college experience and over more experienced candidates. Boss was blunt and said he wanted "someone smart" - taking the Y diploma as proof of "smart." In another case, different boss was so thrilled to get a H grad as a job candidate, he created a position just to keep the kid on. I can tell you, no State U grads that I saw interviewd generated such a reaction of expectation and excitement. In these two admittedly anecdotal cases (though I suspect in thousands of other cases as well) the Ivy diploma was a door opener in and of itself. </p>
<p>PS I graduated from a huge public. Just so you know I am not an apologist of, or a particular proponent for, an Ivy education. Merely an observation.</p>