<p>Hello,</p>
<p>The simple question is this: should the child or the parent(s) be expected to pay for a PLUS loan?</p>
<p>So now here are a LOT more details of my situation.</p>
<p>I'm looking for some perspective from the parents out there. My wife and I are 5 years out of college and are both doing very well overall...definitely way ahead of most people our age. My wife's dad took out $3200 in PLUS loans while she was in college to help pay for tuition one year. My wife paid for most of college with scholarships and taking on about $26,000 in her own loans, and other than the $3200 her dad took out, he helped with pocket money. Her dad went to college at the same time putting the loan into deferment for the time being, then he ended up in bankruptcy shortly after they both graduated, and 8 years total later the PLUS loan was completely forgetten until recently, when it finally went into repayment.</p>
<p>In a nutshell, a year ago he brought this up to us, and after much grief he agreed to pay for it (there are MANY personal issues here too). Then, after not getting exactly the divorce settlement a month ago he thought was going to clear, he comes asking for us to take it over again.</p>
<p>So what is your opinion? Should children be expected to pay for the PLUS loans? Or if the PLUS loan is pretty much the limit of the parents' assistance in getting the child through college, and only a very small amount of it too, should the parent take responsibility?</p>
<p>Thanks!
James</p>
<p>That is a tough one. It seems reasonable that the original agreement should stand....did they have any agreement up front?</p>
<p>The other question is the BK & divorce- are you feeling like it was an irresponsible credit card run or a good guy hit by tough circumstances? I can see how the circumstances surrounding his coming back to you could affect your decision.</p>
<p>It depends on the circumstances. Is this the mountain you want to die on? </p>
<p>Parents don't OWE kids anything related to college. We all do it because we want to. So, there is no "should". If he hadn't taken out the loan, she would have had to borrow this amount anyway, right?</p>
<p>Thx for such quick replies. My understanding is that there was never an agreement up front, and more importantly it seems like both just completely forgot about the PLUS loan. My wife says if he had just been up front with her years ago about her repaying it, she would be okay. But this is just one disappointment, one more stupid act, on his part to add to many in the past. My wife and her dad have an extremely strained relationship, with him disappointing her and letting her down time and time again. I could write forever about the issues that have come up in just the past few years. As far as good guy vs. irresponsible, he's just an all around crappy dad to have, and neither good guy or irresponsible applies as much today as saying he is just selfish and in the midst of his mid-life crisis.</p>
<p>My basic understanding is that the PLUS loan was necessary to cover the remaining costs that one year. After that, my wife absorbed 2 years of private loans in addition to federal loans to make up the difference.</p>
<p>It's hard for me to fully comprehend the situation. I grew up with very supportive parents who said they would do anything to make it happen. And when I went to college (fortunately an in-state public school) they did just that. I took on loans to cover tuition, they paid for everything else and I worked every summer to build my resume and make enough money for spending cash to get me through the school years. Her dad's focus seems to be much more stuck on him not owing her a dime to pay for school. He discussions with me have almost gone as far as him asking that she owes him for every dollar of assistance he provided her those 4 years.</p>
<p>One more thing: my wife and her dad's relationship is so bad already our decision can't make it substantially better or worse.</p>
<p>Why make the relationship worse? It's a relatively small sum unless there is a great deal of interest accrued There may be one day that there could be a reconcilment and being nice is always helpful. </p>
<p>If you were in a similiar situation with your child what would you do?</p>
<p>Let the woman decide. The male needs only to be supportive in this situation.</p>
<p>Good Luck. </p>
<p>2</p>
<p>I think that ordinarily the parent should be the one responsible for the PLUS loan absent extenuating circumstances... but I think that $3200 is a very small amount of money - I'm not sure its worth the aggravation if you have the means to pay it off. And there are unusual circumstance - bankruptcy, divorce.... so it sounds like maybe the father really doesn't have the ability to pay at this point. It also sounds like the real issue is your wife's frustration and anger with her dad, not the money itself.</p>
<p>Legally, there is no obligation for your wife to pay. It just depends on whether she wants to spend the rest of her dad's life rehashing this argument with him or not. If she pays it, then he'll never bring it up again. So it depends on whether she prefers to keep the conflict alive.</p>
<p>I don't think there are any "right" answers to the question of whom should feel obligated to pay. Different families work these things out for themselves depending on their values, assets, liabilities etc. </p>
<p>This may be a battle not worth fighting with your FIL. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip (or some such phrase). I was in much the same situation after med school, and my father renegged on a very small loan(about $3000) he had promised to pay for me, the only one he had of the $78,000 in principal which I owed. To make a long story short, he was not solvent, I started getting harassing letters, and decided to just pay it myself...I didn't want to ruin my credit rating, etc.. Are you sure your wife is not named on the loan in any way? In my case, he was the primary recipient, but my name appeared as well. </p>
<p>If you think you are done bailing out your FIL, however, I would caution you otherwise...at least if my life experience is any indication...</p>
<p>There is no definitive "right" answer in this situation. I agree with the person who suggested that you leave the decision up to your wife, and then stand by her. Since there are many factors related to your wife's complicated and disappointing relationship with her father wrapped up in this decision, your wife might find it helpful to go to counseling to help her decide what to do.</p>
<p>I agree with Northstarmom.....leave this one up to your wife because it is more than just a money issue but it is tied up to her relationship with her father. Yes, I think he should pay but it has to be worked out somehow. A counselor might be just the thing for her to help her sort out what to do because each scenario has repurcussions or feelings attached to it. </p>
<p>I was married very young, still in college (summer after soph year) and hubby had just graduated college. He entered a four year graduate school (I eventually went to grad school as well). My parents agreed to still pay for my education during this time. His did too. At some point, his parents "changed their mind" and not because of any change in their financial circumstances (they still could afford it) but more to do with that in their case, they often use money to reward or punish, in so many words. His parents renegged on their agreement and he had to borrow all the money to pay back. I can't even recall what this was about that time (as this was 28 years ago and there have been enough things in between to cloud my memory of this sort of thing), but I think they were not happy because they expected us to move to where they lived and for my husband to take over his father's practice (for which he was going to make him pay for it like any other buyer) and we opted to not move there or do that and there went the college fund agreement. As a post-op....this did not end anything with them. In fact, over the years, they have been extremely generous in other ways including help for the grandchildren whom they adore. So, like, this did not END the relationship but it was a bitter pill to swallow to have them change or reneg midstream and have to now pay all those loans back.
Susan</p>
<p>For goodness sakes, your wife should pay off the loan! Sure its kind of cheap and low for Dad to re-neg, but the money was borrowed for her education when it comes down to it. Make a payment schedule, pay it off in installments and move on with your lives. You don't need a small amount like this to poison your family relationship. $3,200 means you many have to go without a new living room set or a cruise. You are young , college educated and will recover from this cash setback - you say you are doing well anyway -. Pay it, forget about it and move on with your life and careers</p>
<p>This is really not a PLUS loan question as the implications of the decision go way over the terms of the loan. It is a family and personal issue. As you probably well know, the PLUS loan is given to the parent and legally it is his responsibility to pay it. Upon his death, the loan obligations end. However, when it comes to money and stress, families can really have a rough road when the legality of something is brought on the table. I think that NSM is right in that it is your wife's decision on how this should be handled, and it should also be in writing as these things often get forgotten once resolved. Since the loan is legally his responsibility taking it over is probably not the best option, but if he cannot be trusted to repay it if you just hand over the money, some tracking system needs to be put in there.</p>
<p>Our family, too has dispensed some bitter pills over money agreements or disagreements. One outstanding issue that is really causing a problem right now is something that happened years ago when one relative wanted to tap a large sum of money, giving up his rights on a piece fo property he shared ownership with his sister. Now that piece of property is worth considerably more and he feels only what he borrowed should be taken out his ownership. That is why proper documentation is necessary. People do forget that you repaid something or terms, especially as they get older. My mother still blames me for the loss of money 30 years ago when I invested for her and lost it. Though I repaid her the amount many times over, it is still a sore to her and she still feels I owe her the money as I never formally gave her a check for the amount and written statement thereof. And we are talking about less than $1000 that she wanted me to invest for her, not a loan.</p>
<p>Money makes people do weird things. My own mom will never let anyone forget that she ultimately repaid my $6,000 in loans after I graduated. Conveniently forgets that I went through a private college on scholarships and grants that I secured myself, without any help from her!</p>
<p>Anyway, my husband and I set a policy early in our marriage that we have NEVER deviated from. We do not accept money from our parents (except token gifts) for any reason. His parents don't have the means, and my mom doesn't give anything without many strings attached. (As you can see - she retains lifetime bragging rights if she gives you anything!) We aren't rich, and many times we have had to do without, but the independence has been worth it!</p>
<p>Just repay the money. It is not enough to fight over. Take the high ground. Yes, he said he would pay it, but he obviously isn't a man of his word. He's not going to change now. Even if you fight him on this one, you will probably still wind up paying it - so just save yourself the aggravation, pay, and move on.</p>
<p>Sounds like FIL is tapped out, what with divorce/bankruptcy, etc. You've given no reason for us to believe that you are in a bad place financially--in fact, you say that you are both doing very well, overall.</p>
<p>Yes, it is his responsibility to pay off the loan. No, you are under no obligation to pay it. But I would pay it and consider it a gift to FIL.</p>
<p>Some people here are saying it's a small amount of money. Okay, if that's how you see it, then you certainly should pay it off. To many people, this is not a small amount of money, and it sounds as if that may the case for him. </p>
<p>I also happened to notice your wording when you say she "absorbed" some loans for her education at some other point. That implies that she was taking on someone else's debt. That really isn't the case here in any sense other than the strictest legal sense, is it? </p>
<p>I guess I can see this from the father's position even though we aren't really in it because we don't have a lot of money, and our son will almost certainly end up a lot richer than we will ever be. He would never think of asking us to be in debt for his education if he didn't absolutely have to do so. Thank God he doesn't.</p>
<p>One more thought--maybe he's been a "crappy father." Is that something you want to help to continue? It could change. He won't live forever. Maybe this will show a kind of goodwill that will motivate him to change. Wouldn't that be a gift?</p>
<p>Just my two cents - since it is a relatively small amount and the relationship is tenuous I think that you should just graciously take over the repayment of the PLUS loan. Good luck to both you and your wife.</p>
<p>I know that it can be difficult for people who have "normal" parents to understand unhealthy family dynamics. I've had to separate myself from mine entirely, so I can understand the things that could actually refute the phrase "family is everything".</p>
<p>BUT, I don't know about your wife's relationship with her father. Some things can be mended and some things require difficult decisions.</p>
<p>With that said, I agree with the posters who said that she should really decide if she will take on this loan or not. I think that if she hasn't already she should look into counseling to help her figure out what she needs/wants from her relationship with her father. I only say this because sometimes we are too close to our own relationships to truly understand the other person's side. Maybe she can gain some insight.</p>
<p>But, that isn't really the question here so my advice is to let her decide and support her in that decision.</p>
<p>Doubt if the old man is going to change. And I agree that the amount could be ornerous and doubtful that young people with other loans as well would have this kind of money. So some kind of payment plan would be in order if she decided to take this on, but it does need to be well documented. If he is finally nabbed for a loan he was not paying, he may owe well over the initial amount borrowed. If he is careless about paying loans or financial management, just giving him the money, may not be good route, as he may still have the loan after you have paid it. It can be very messy situation, and taking the high road in this is not going to be easy. I have, unfortunately, been involved in too many of these family things, and even with careful documentation and written agreements have been accused of backpedaling or reneging. My way of dealing with certain dysfunctional family members is to do the right thing, document it carefully, and not spend much time on the issue. You can drive yourself nuts and beggar yourself trying to help some people, whether you love them or hate them.</p>
<p>OP already said both he and his wife are doing quite well, so money isn't the issue. I don't see why there's a difficult question, then. Can't they just ask for the payment coupon, bill or whatever and send the check themselves if they actually have the money and that's the question? Then all the detailing is moot.</p>
<p>I guess I am feeling the same way
The dad took out loans for both his and daughters education
since then sound like he has been divorced and gone bankrupt meanwhile D is doing "very well"
While technically I suppose legally Father is liable for the loans- ethically I would have a really hard time with myself if I insisted that he have the weight of my educational debt along with everything else.
I admit I can't believe the position of some adult children to want to beat their parents up over their faults- including not being able to send them to the school of their dreams.
Yeah- many parents aren't cut out to be parents- the qualities that lead you to have the skills /strenght/ and integrity to parent a child aren't the same qualities that led you to concieve.
Jamimom not withstanding- I bet many of us are lacking in many ways with our parenting skills- I know I am.
But while I admit she has lots of loans herself- they did go to pay for her education and I would try to pay themoff.</p>