I don’t think you lose eligibility, you just can’t accept money from another school or play that year. You’d still have 5 years to play 4 if you sign an NLI and then don’t play for that school that year.
I disagree that the NLI is the same as acceptance at the school. The coach may have cleared things with the admissions office but there is no obligation to do so, and the terms of the NLI provide that if admissions isn’t granted, the NLI is void. There wouldn’t be such a clause if the NLI=admission. Schools that don’t have rolling admissions do not grant admission before the early signing period. All of those NLI’s are signed with the understanding the student must be admitted academically.
Last year Texas had no problem ‘finding’ 4 spots for Baylor players just before summer practices started. I don’t think Texas or the ousted players felt the NLI was an iron clad contract.
@BobcatPhoenix That is what I’m trying to convey. The LL is only given to committed athlete for the Ivys who submits their application “super early” like Sept 15 as ED, and have to go through an interview with the admissions committee as well, then receives the admission committee letter only after a couple weeks of submitting their application stating their decision to admit the student in the form of the Likely Letter. After they receive the LL, then their college application process is over. The student’s only job is to enjoy the rest of their senior year. The NLI recipient still has to apply and wait for admissions decision, so signing the NLI doesn’t mean you’ve been accepted by the AO.
Not in the same or higher division. Now at the NLI stage it may not matter much because the year “lost” is generally the red shirt year in any event. But absent a complete release by the school, you are going to lose a year.
And I understand that this is contrary to your experience, but at least in the revenue sports, virtually every D1 school outside the Ivy and the academies cede a number of admissions slots to the AD based on certain criteria set out by the admissions office. Stanford and the Patriot schools operate on sort of a blended system. But kids signing to play at Duke, Vandy, Northwestern, Notre Dame, et all know they have been admitted when they sign the NLI. I know for certain that this process extends to PWO offers at Duke, Northwestern and Notre Dame, and assume it is true of the others. It is the only way those schools can compete.
Yep, I bet it was fortunate coincidence that a couple kids found out after spring ball that their injuries were so severe that they wouldn’t be able to play again. Funny how that stuff happens. On a less cynical note, it is also true that some programs hold a scholarship or two into summer camp for an upper class walk on who is really coming on. I don’t know if Texas does that, but it could be that nobody got booted to make way for the Baylor kids. It could be some kids didn’t make grades in summer school (which also happens) and maybe a couple walk ons who were in line for a scholly got short shrift.
Why not just wait until EA OR ED admission decision as most are going to satisfy commitment in that fashion; seems like the early crowing (by mostly parents) is unnecessary - humility is good. To that end, I like Middlebury’s stated policy as while they have some of the strongest D3 teams, which means plenty of early commitment discussions are happening, they seem to believe that humbler is better.
One thing I will say in defense of some of the kids who do pull the trigger early and publicize it is that for certain kids, the scrutiny is intense. My son was fortunate to play with probably three kids in high school (two in his class) who were of the stature that had they waited until signing day to commit, ESPN would have carried their decision live. The amount of media attention those kids received, both on social media and from various stringers hanging around the program who would button hole the kids after practice or games, is crazy. I know for a fact that, at least for the two kids in my son’s class, the decision to initially commit was driven in large part by a desire just to get it over with, in the hopes that the hype machine would move on. I don’t know how much those issues translate to other sports, but my guess is for the tippy top kids in most sports there is some level of scrutiny that is no fun to deal with.
But yeah, at the lower end of D1 (ESPN most assuredly would not have cut into my son’s signing ceremony to watch which hat he picked) or D2 and D3 level I don’t see the same type of pressures applying.
I don’t think Middlebury’s policy is across the board. On the 2018-19 recruits lists for lax, there are 3 girls and 7 boys who have posted their commitments, and they’ve been posted for a while (you can tell by the ID number assigned). Colby, Bates, Amherst also have commitments posted.
I don’t think Middlebury has accepted any students yet for Fall 2018.
Do schools expect those who are accepted ED to wait until May 1 to announce so that no one’s feeling are hurt that they weren’t admitted ED?
A few quick questions to refine/refocus discussion based on scan of recent posts:
For Ivy recruits:
Should students with an LL in hand publicize beyond “inner circle” as soon as they receive it?
Is waiting until non-athlete ED notification date (in Dec) a smarter move?
For non-Ivy D1 school recruits:
Should students with verbal offer/verbal commit publicize beyond “inner circle” as soon as s/he has committed?
Is it better to wait for NLI receipt/public signing day?
Is it even better to wait until acceptance letter in hand (which could come before, with, or after NLI)?
What are some good, non-specific phrases to use in response to various inquires before kid is ready to publicze (beyond, "Nothing to report/none of your damn business")?
Ex. from posts so far: “I am looking at Amherst.” (kid); “I am not buying or putting on any bumper stickers until the acceptance letter arrives.” (kid or parent)
Note that I am asking these in the hopes that this thread will be helpful for future recruits, not just my daughter. Apologies to the D3 crowd…I’m admittedly not very familiar with that Div. People with Div3 experience should feel free cover the above as it applies to D3.
My D just committed to a D3 school (not LAX) and will be submitting her ED app shortly. She only told her AAU coach and GC. All she has told everyone else if they ask is “I applied ED to XXX.” Those who aren’t athletes don’t understand how the process works and that she has committed to play at that school. The athletes understand she has committed but don’t seem to be saying much about it. I think in part because the school is on the other coast and not well known here. Otherwise, we are being quiet about the whole thing for the reasons stated above. Despite a positive preread from admissions, we will not feel comfortable til that notice arrives in Dec. There are a couple of girls on her AAU team that have made big announcements, but that is their choice.
@mamom: Daughter in similar situation for D1, with ED app already submitted. She/I have been even more circumspect in responses to questions (which again, are inevitable), merely stating that she “has applied ED to a Div1 school.” Which doesn’t seem to be the most satisfying answer for some!
Obviously the most discrete and safe approach is to not say anything until acceptance is in hand. Most kids, though, again in the sports I know best (one of which is lax) tell the world by Instagram within seconds of verbally committing. I think a reasonable compromise is to advocate that kids not put anything on social media until the LL is in hand (for Ivies) or until the NLI. Most high schools publicize the NLI signers on their website anyway, so it is public whether the kid says anything or not. In lacrosse, my experience is that 90% or more of the kids who verbally commit end up attending that school and if they don’t it’s because they chose to go to another school. Very few get their commitment cancelled by the school, so there is little embarrassment risk in announcing it. Now if a kid was marginal academically and the coach told the kid that the verbal commitment was a “soft” one subject to test scores or grades, I’d certainly counsel that kid to keep quiet and hit the books.
If a kid chooses the discrete path, the kid will probably tell his/her close friends and family, but if others ask, it’s pretty easy to say “I committed but because verbal offers are not certain, I don’t like to talk about it” or “I committed but I don’t want to jinx it, so I don’t talk about it.” But be aware that kids at the higher end of the HS lax world get asked constantly “Have you committed yet” or “Where are you committed?” It’s constant.
^As I said above, I really don’t see an issue with announcing the commitment particularly after the LL is received. But if there is some reticence in announcing a commitment, how about some variation of “I am starting to narrow it down, but don’t want to say anything until I am 100% sure” or “x school is my favorite at the moment, but it is a big decision”, something like that? As far as parents, I am a big fan of “I don’t care where he goes, as long as he gets a good job and starts supporting me for a change”
@noanswers, my family submitted the app before signing the NLI and I believe that is the normal practice. What @Ohiodad51 said I think pretty much goes for non-revenue sports too, up to some limit which I believe is set before offers are made. Coaches know what it takes to get their recruits through admissions and the weaning out has already occurred before the NLI is signed.
@SevenDad, before we committed but before and after the offer I knew the list of schools that my D was at least somewhat interested in and I could replay those back as a group with the eventual commit school so as to not give too much away.
When she got an offer, I did tell some good sports parent friends but under the cone of silence. She told her GC and I am sure a fried or two but with the same conditions. After she accepted, she told her GC and advisor and we posted it. She got a message 10 minutes after it went online from some of the other girls in her offer tier who had accepted, so that was that.
Don’t underestimate the power of a public commitment to keep your athlete’s head in the academic game. My D was told by many adults (coaches, GCs, etc.) that she would need to keep her grades up to fulfill her commitment so I am sure it helped keep her on track in those situations when she would have rather gone out with friends. So there are some small upsides to publicly getting the commitment out there.
Another reason is that it is courteous to others vying for a spot on that team. I am guessing that in quite a few sports once you get to the level that you are getting recruited by any college, you know and are friends with several athletes who are roughly at your same level and competing for the same spots. It helps the athletes still going through the process to know where things are falling into place. S was wondering why one of the coaches he had a good rapport with wasn’t contacting him anymore. Then when another athlete announced his school choice, we knew. They didn’t need anyone at S’s spot anymore. Which is helpful for S because he knows he needs to move on.
Also agree with @Ohiodad51 above. Even for kids who are not at the “ESPN live coverage” level, there are a lot them who are really sick of every conversation turning to where they are looking and who has contacted them. They are all probably a bit of a big deal in their immediate athletic circle, so they have people from their sport and their school constantly asking them where they are going. S is a junior, and when we talk about how this process will be probably ongoing for another year he looks like he is going to throw up. He is kind of enjoying it, but also wanting it to be over. Plus I think he will want to let others know where he is going as a courtesy.
Just a question as this thread has continued down this path. What is the issue with kids telling their friends, etc that they have committed to a school? My son’s school generally has a lot of athletic recruits in a lot of different sports, and his sport in particular is one with a pretty good success rate at putting kids into colleges (there were 12 D1 commits from his class and one other in D2, another handful went on to play in D3). The boys were very open with each other about who was “getting the love” from which schools, and regularly discussed what camps they were attending, what schools they liked, etc. Of course everyone knew which coaches were there watching practice or lifts, and there was much speculation at the local wing joint (a favorite post practice stop) about who was there for whom, or who “rocked it” that day. In my opinion, this kind of openness was extremely helpful to my son because it gave him a sounding board of other kids he trusted who were going through similar issues. In fact, he is adamant that it was a discussion with a teammate that sealed the deal for him and made him commit early, something I know he is very glad he did.
My son’s school was an all boys school, and my daughter was not an athlete in high school. I really don’t mean to sound sexist, but is this kind of thing more of an issue with girls’ sports?
@Ohiodad51, speaking from the other gender aisle, there was a lot of angst about “showing off” and my D felt like some of her teammates who were counting coaches on the sidelines at games were cramping her style mentally so she didn’t really talk about it except 1-1 with a few close teammates until she committed. Not sure how general that experience is.
ETA: I wonder if it is not also sport-specific too. Lacrosse, where there are few set plays or roles, can lend itself to ball-hogging and spotlight-stealing. One of my D’s teammates would invariably run the ball over the restraining line, ignoring open players, and shoot it into the goalie’s stick.
Kind of like if the RB stepped in front of the QB on every snap to gran the ball and run; the QB and WRs might get a bit salty after a while. But I would think that would never happen in football.
@BobcatPhoenix I think that Lacrosse player is also on my D’s soccer team. She has just moved up to the level where most of their tournaments are showcase tournaments with college coaches watching. Coincidentally, 1 her coach has put together somewhat of an all star team, and 2 it looks like we have 11 girls out there taking on the world instead of playing like a team.
I would think that to a certain extent the coaches would be turned off by that.
And there is a certain amount of hot dogging in football (as you can see occasionally on Sundays), but it is certainly a different kind of game, plus my son was fortunate to play in a program that didn’t tolerate a whole lot of that type of stuff.
As to the rest of it, it does seem to be a kind of gender specific thing.
