<p>Guess what? The Ivies aren't the only schools in the world. Don't sit about whining and sniffling that the acceptance rate for your elite fancy school went down - guess what? Your chance of getting into an Ivy is probably still miles ahead of people of people who work just as hard as you or do not have the same opportunities as you. Consider yourself lucky for what you have and what you will undoubtably recieve if you relax and broaden your horizons.</p>
<p>To have good teachers, challenging classes, intelligent peers--that's a form of luxury in itself. I only wish my school offered things like yoga and dance. I only wish I had a way to sign up for a class, not necessarily ballet, and get myself over there (for people who live in the suburbs, you're out of luck if your parents can't drive you.) You are pampered, in that you don't have to deal with a school with inadequate tenured teachers, AP courses that don't prepare you at all for the tests, a major lack of funding and technology, overcrowded classrooms, corrupt superintendents, a severe drug problem, gangs, etc. </p>
<p>And why is it that just because you prep school kids had the opportunity to go to a better high school that you should be admitted into good colleges immediately? True, public high school isn't challenging, but why does that make us less capable than you? We make do with the opportunities that we have, which are substantially less than the ones you have. </p>
<p>Case in point: one of the girls at my school beat out hundreds of private and public school kids to claim second place in the NJ Biology League competition. Another boy placed in the top 150 in the nation for the Chemistry Olympiad, beating out thousands of other students. </p>
<p>Seriously, stop whining.</p>
<p><em>sigh</em>
I'm not "whining," I'm looking for answers. AGAIN: need-blind means that if you really wanted to... you too could have these luxuries I know I am blessed with.</p>
<p>And why should we be admitted? Because we are workers, we know the value of a good education and know how to make the best of it, we have been challenged and pushed and driven by the need to succeed against peers who are of your caliber... I am not questioning that there are many public school students who work very, very hard and take all the APs and push themselves. They are recognized. They are appreciated in the college admissions process and they will reap the benefits.</p>
<p>We will either be admitted or shut down, even though the average student at a top BS has worked just as hard as that public school student. No matter what you try and say, the average student at A or E is just as, if not more, hard working and intelligent as your school's validectorian; and no one will recognize that. Not even those reading this forum, and certainly not the college admissions officers at the top schools.</p>
<p>For many, it's not so much a matter of money as just... family stuff. I begged to go to boarding school because, to be honest, I hate where I live. But I can't, because my family, first of all, wanted to spend what time they had with me (meaning, they know that after high school, I'm going to be pretty much gone. College, work, a life of my own... they wanted to take advantage of these four years.), and second of all, they needed me for other things. Like, as I mentioned, cooking dinner for my sister (who's autistic, by the way, so a conventional babysitter is kind of hard to use) pretty much every day, among other things. </p>
<p>But anyway. Have you considered that perhaps you are being somewhat elitist?... </p>
<p>I think it's good that you guys up at boarding schools get to experience some of the insecurity regarding colleges that we at the public school level experience. Yes, all of the people from your school are qualified, but top colleges are now only accepting like 20% of qualified students or whatever the percentage is anyway. So, let's say the percent of BS kids (regardless of the BS kid's class rank or whatever) accepted should be proportionate the the percent of HS valedictorians accepted. Isn't that number only like 17% at Harvard?...</p>
<p>I'm sorry, I really do hate arguing, so please don't read this in an argumentative tone of voice. I prefer to think of it more as a discussion in which we're both presenting valid viewpoints. The truth probably lies in some middle ground in between.</p>
<p>I agree. I understand that not everyone can go to boarding school because of varying circumstances, and it's also a fight for me.. I am an only child and have to constantly assure my parents that yes, I can take care of myself, and no, they are not completely losing their baby to the big scary work world just yet.</p>
<p>I think a lot of the frustration on both parts is coming from the fact that we are both working very, very hard... I mean, in the race for the Ivies, we all are, no matter what school we attend... and yet we watch as only 17% (?) of valedictorians are accepted and the numbers of BS acceptances begin a downward spiral.. only so that legacies and athletes and affirmative action kids can take the places of true hard workers.</p>
<p>:( It's really getting me down.</p>
<p>Andover is one tough place to make it through. The HYPSM admits are hard, but great schools below that will love your background.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>...but I'm just frustrated because I work -so hard- and I don't want to end up going to a 2nd tier college and watching those who had it easier than me end up in the Ivies because they chose to stay home for school.<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>So then why don't you stay home and go to your local public school? </p>
<p>You can: a) save your parents the outrageous prep school expense, b) kick back and slack-off, c) coast your way to a piece-of-cake 4.0/Val graduation, and d) sail into an Ivy with no questions asked. It's a cinch, right? What are you waiting for? Stop complaining and get going.</p>
<p>I love it when people whine about situations they've made of their own free choice. And with the public school option so advantageous as you've painted it, people will start to question your intelligence if you don't take it.</p>
<p>Prostudent - I'm guessing if you dropped the validectorian from a public school (WHO GOT INTO HARVARD) into your prep school, they'd be a top performing student there too. That's what the top colleges have figured out, no BS or HS school has a corner on the smart, motivated, accomplished students. They're everywhere.</p>
<p>Bit of advice - take the energy you're spending worrying about how some public HS kid who's not quite as smart as you may get into an Ivy and throw it into music or sports or theatre or bike racing or solving world hunger. Everyone will win that way.</p>
<p>"only so that legacies and athletes and affirmative action kids can take the places of true hard workers."</p>
<p>That's where your argument commits suicide.</p>
<p>Those athletes, legacies, and developmental kids, yeah, they suck, until you get admitted.</p>
<p>If you are fighting for a spot, sure, they suck.</p>
<p>Once you are there - Those facilities - those kids. Your high class rank - partially those kids.</p>
<p>I'll take the newer, nicer facilities and a 2% less shot at getting in every time.</p>
<p>Eloquence, do you believe that these students deserve the spots of the public school valedictorians who are rejected?</p>
<p>I have to agree with skiers-mom. </p>
<p>Besides... colleges want diversity, too. They don't want a whole bunch of people coming from the same school(s). Of course BS kids aren't all WASPs, but they've all led relatively similar lives for the past 4 years, and it's shaped them into very nice people, but not exactly the diverse group that the college wants, I guess... meh. I don't know.</p>
<p>:) I just know that I want some kind of reward for the 20+ hour days I've been putting in since the beginning of sophomore year, even if the stuff I've been learning (or the teachers I've been learning it from, or the students I've been learning it with) are only "second-rate."</p>
<p>Why do I stay? Because college isn't the only thing in life, and I -do- still have a shot at the Ivies from my spot at A. Plus, I love being surrounded by intelligent and hardworking students from all over the world.</p>
<p>But like you pointed out, it -is- a -lot- of money. Which is why I'm trying to figure out how to make the best of it... and trying to figure out why it is that those same intelligent and hardworking peers are being rejected.</p>
<p>I think there is a big misconcpetion about what it is like at a boarding school. Yes, you have tremendous opportunities and resources that most public schools do not have but there are also many negative sides. Most public schools have a limited number of students competing for the top rankings and leadership positions. At the boarding schools almost every single kid is trying to be at the top, and every single student wants the leadership positions. In a public schools a teacher could check off on a recommendation that a certain student is in the top 10%, because the truth of the matter is at most public schools only the top 10% or so actually care about the grades. (I say most, because obviously there are many magnet schools and the like where nearly everyone is motivated). But at a prep school, everyone is trying to go for amazing grades, so within your form it's really hard to distinguish yourself. Plus just to get good grades at a top prep school is difficult; Last year in my form, only 3 or 4 students out of around 130 managed to get the equivalent of A's in all subjects. Plus, the school doesn't weight for honors or ap courses. Obviously there are many students at public schools who deserve to go to top universities, but it's much much harder to prove you're at the top when you go to a good boarding school.</p>
<p>NOT second-rate.</p>
<p>la montagne, how much time do you spend on homework for each class on average per day?</p>
<p>Just being "valedictorian" should never be a ticket to Ivies, you're generalizing URMs, athletes and legacies as "less deserving" because you're so sure you work so much harder than everyone else and you deserve it more so than others. Get over yourself. As a URM, sorry I was born into poverty and sorry I was born this color, sorry I can't ever go to an excellent boarding school like you or ever have the opportunities you have. Beyond that, I guarantee you I work just as hard as you every single day of my life. Get over yourself and stop being so pretentious, life isn't as black and white as you see it.</p>
<p>When I went to one of the HYPs, kids from the prep schools were substantially better educated (especially in the humanities) than kids from public schools, but on average the smartest kids were almost all from the public schools. At the time, the prep schools were more of a sorting ground for the social elite, though there certainly were ambitious kids from less well-to-do families who attended Exeter, etc. But, there were a lot of polished intelligent but not impressively intelligent kids from Deerfield and Choate who came from good families and played lacrosse. Prep school admissions have become so selective that they are doing lots of pre-screening for the Ivies and their ilk. On average, these are much stronger kids than those who attended in the old days. There were few to no Jews, Indians or Asians in the prep schools when I attended college. That has changed. It is much harder to get in on academic grounds. So, one might expect that a higher percentage of kids from the top prep schools would get into the Ivies. But, I think that there is pressure to reduce the percentage of the class that comes from the prep schools -- the Ivies don't want to be seen as a playground for the rich but rather as meritocracies. Yet, they still have to take the legacies, which means that a declining percentage of admits from the preps probably skews the admits from the preps toward legacies. </p>
<p>There was a superb article in the Wall Street Journal that got the grades/board scores of the Groton Class of 1998 (I think) and where they went to college. Where the kids from Groton class of 98 got into colleges seemed less correlated with their class rank and board scores than with what they and especially their families brought to the table. For example, Sid Bass donated $21MM to Stanford and guess what, his daughter was admitted. Celebrity kids (e.g., David Halberstam’s daughter) got in to select schools. The Princeton legacy who was a rower got in despite much lower grades/board scores. The much higher-performing Korean kid with lower middle class parents did not get in. My sense is that there is what statisticians might call a selection bias: those children with families and skills that make them attractive to colleges also are more likely to get in to the private high schools. The private schools are much more likely to help the college admissions chances of, say, a minority student who would otherwise go to a poorly regarded high school but who goes to and does well at Groton – Yale is much more confident of the meaning of Groton grades than of grades in Bridgeport, CT. But, the differential from Yale’s standpoint between Groton grades and Lexington, MA high school grades (for a URM) may be negligible or much smaller.</p>
<p>The top 10% or 20% of the high school class in an affluent town like Millburn, NJ or Lexington, MA is likely to be comparable on academic measures to most private high schools. (The parents are likely to be a little lower income and there may be some other differences). But, it is this group that take the honors and AP classes at the public high schools. If you take the proportion of the elite group at the affluent public high schools who attend the prestige colleges, it may be higher than at many private schools. If you only consider this group, the elite college admissions rate at Lexington high school is probably closer to 30% or 35% (5 times the 7% of Lexington HS that attends the top 10 schools). [Note that this is not iron-clad as some kids out of the top 20% may get into the Ivies, but it is a more reasonable way of comparing a good public high school like Lexington with a good private high school.</p>
<p>So, I would say that unless you are a legacy, athlete or URM, going to a really tough private school (whether Andover or Commonwealth) probably gives you lower odds of getting into an Ivy than attending a top public high school. But, you are getting a superb education that should help you throughout your life.</p>
<p>That's a near-impossible question to answer. First of all, we have a rotating schedule, so on a given night we don't have to do all 7 subjects' worth of homework. Second of all, there are subjects like English or History, where we may have to write a paper or read a book, but we don't have homework each night. Then there are classes like Chem, Physics, and Calc, where the homework is in essence optional. If you don't understand the material, you do the homework. These happen to be my strong points, so I only do the homework when it's mandatory or if I really don't understand the material. The majority of my time is spent on extracurriculars. I fence for a few hours daily, mentor children with special needs every other day, and, during drama season, spend usually 2-3 hours at rehearsal (tech crew... lighting and sound), and all the other ECs I do. I would estimate that, in total, I spend about... 5 hours on homework per day. 8 hours in school, 7 hours on ECs, 5 hours on homework per day. Ish. I really don't know.</p>
<p>Eloquence, if you are hardworking and intelligent you do not NEED the handouts that legacies/athletes/AA students get. You will get in on your merit alone. I don't understand what you're trying to say... if you're as qualified as the valedictorians than you most certainly deserve that spot in the Ivies... not because of your financial standing, not because of your skin color, not because of your athletic abilities, not because of family ties to the school... but because you are intelligent and strong and a hard working student.</p>
<p>shawbridge</p>
<p>So should I drop out of AED? I mean.. the benefits of AED are endless for sure but if its going to handicap me in the college arena.. :( What is your advice?</p>