Why a conservatory?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>My S is a HS junior and a future voice major (baritone). He recently had a couple of "sample" lessons with a voice teacher at a nearby university with a relatively strong voice program. Our son's regular teacher wanted S to be "evaluated" by this university professor. Anyway...university professor told S that he should consider a conservatory, which is also what regular voice teacher has been saying for months.</p>

<p>So..why a conservatory? Is there any benefit for a male voice major, whose voice will still be maturing, to spend all the money for a conservatory for undergrad? Until voice teacher started talking about conservatories, I just figured that it was better to send S to a good university with a strong voice program and save our money for a conservatory for graduate degree.</p>

<p>A little about S - he is definite that he wants to be a voice major, has no interest in other academics (although he is a strong HS student), has been a professional (union-member) in MT since he was 8 (so sings, dances, acts, etc), and has a strong interest in music theory and composition (he's written 2 operettas). </p>

<p>So...opinions. Convince me there is a benefit to a conservatory.</p>

2

<p>Did the professor at the university give a reason for the conservatory recommend? Perhaps he thinks that your S (as a baritone) might garner some serious scholarship money at a conservatory?</p>

<p>Our D has done the university approach with undergrad and grad. She wanted the full university experience, especially when it came to language study(a secondary interest for her and crucial to voice study) . She is glad she made the choice and feels that her language skills surpass those of her conservatory trained peers. She spent this summer performing in Germany, the Germans who spoke with her after her performances were geniunely surprised that she was not a native speaker. She had the same experience in Italy a few years back.
As far as saving money for a conservatory later, that is a great option. Undergrads from her U went on to Grad school at cons such as Curtis, CCM and Juilliard and conversely the U had plenty of grad students who had done their undergrads at the same conservatories and came to a U for their grad work. One experience does not preclude the other.
Of course YMMV.</p>

3

<p>I’m probably way off the mark here (it’s been that kind of a day!), but…</p>

<p>I could easily interpret the recommendation for a “conservatory” as shorthand for “a conservatory level program for serious musicians located either as a stand-alone conservatory or a school of music within a larger university that attracts other strong students and has a culture that supports this student’s strengths”…</p>

<p>as opposed to “yeah, this kid would fit in well at Podunk U down the road where all the middle-of-the-road kids from around here end up.”</p>

<p>Frankly, the COA for a conservatory and a private university aren’t that much different, so I’m a little confused about the money savings aspect, unless you’re eyeing the state flagship or similar for undergrad.</p>

4

<p>I think the stand alone conservatory makes more sense for orchestral instrumentalists and pianists more so than VP majors who, as you point out, still have developing voices. I might be wrong here, but I am guessing that a VP major does not spend 7-8 hours a day singing, whereas that amount of playing is not unusual for a string player or pianist. Therefore, the VP major will have a bit more time to explore other classes and may want a wider variety of choices available.</p>

5

<p>Let’s see if I can address some of the questions… To be honest, I don’t know exactly what the university professor said because I was not there. S reported to me that he said S had the talent for one of the top conservatories, although I don’t think that precluded “conservatory-type” dept in universities like Rice. Private teacher has spoken with me and said that he thinks S would fit in well at a conservatory and could win scholarships, but from what I’ve heard conservatory scholarships are not as generous as academic merit aid at a university. (Just what I’ve heard)</p>

<p>As for cost, S has a guaranteed 1/2 tuition scholarship at several universities including OCU, Baldwin-Wallace, BU and Syracuse - so any conservatory would have to offer enough scholarship to bring the price down to that range. When our older D (a MT major) applied for college with similar academic stats as S, she received merit offers from several schools in the $15,000-20,000 range. I’m just not sure that a conservatory would offer that. </p>

<p>So…maybe we let S try for one or two conservatories and see how the money turns out? I just hate to even let him try for something that might not be a possibility due to finances. </p>

<p>I am just curious to find out what a conservatory would offer that a university cannot. Although S is taken by the idea of fewer gen ed classes. He would be happy just to do music 24/7.</p>

6

<p>Conservatories will definitely offer $15-20K in merit scholarships, sometimes more. </p>

<p>Colleges are better than conservatories with financial aid, based on need alone, but without financial aid, costs are similar, and merit aid is often more common at conservatories.</p>

<p>BU has a conservatory, so maybe that would mean 1/2 tuition there.</p>

<p>I think it’s a good idea to look at a few conservatories, and a few colleges, apply for both options, and see not only what happens with acceptances and costs, but also what your son wants by the time April 2012 rolls around.</p>

7

<p>"I just hate to even let him try for something that might not be a possibility due to finances. "</p>

<p>Since talent is only one part of the admission process, I don’t think you should prevent your son from auditioning for numerous conservatories. If you search the boards you will find all sorts of odd admission results - where a musician did not pass pre-screening for their safety but got into their dream reach with a great scholarship. I would recommend applying to a wide variety of both conservatories and universities that would be appealing to him and see what results. You just never know! A top choice turns into a last choice after visiting, taking trial lessons as well as many other factors that might not have been considered prior to getting an acceptance letter.</p>

8

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<p>ABlestMom is exactly right.</p>

<p>My son applied at a school that we knew we couldn’t afford. Honestly, I figured he wouldn’t get accepted there (due to academics - not music), but he did get accepted and with a $14k/yr music scholarship. I was panicing because even with his scholarship and other financial aid, we still couldn’t afford it. I think that he secretly knew that we couldn’t afford it, but he just wanted to see if he could get in. In the end, he decided on his own, that another school was a better match for him so we never had to tell him that he couldn’t go.</p>

<p>If he applies and if he is accepted, the worst case is that he would just have to face up to economic realities - it’s a learning experiance. Best case is that he get’s a large enough scholarship that it is actually financially feasable. Either way, he comes out a winner.</p>

9

<p>Just make sure he knows the realties and can set his expectations accordingly. We did that with DD and 2 of her picks were eliminated because of finances. But she knew it could happen. We told her how much we could contribute and how much scholarship would have to come through to attend each one.</p>

10

<p>Thanks for all the advise. I’m still trying to figure out the answer to my original question: Is there a difference/advantage between a university program and a conservatory program?</p>

<p>Btw, as I type this my S is in Tacoma visiting the University of Puget Sound (another of our guaranteed scholarship schools). I’ve asked him to inquire about the difference b/w conservatory and an LAC when he talks to the Dean of Music school.</p>

11

<p>As musicamusica indicated it is not as cut and dried as they make it seem. DD ended up at Rice which fit her desire for both worlds, great university and great conservatory. For graduate school there are universities on her list that have great conservatory level music departments. I agree that the term as used is more about the quality of the totality of the students and the intensity of the studies. You could compare the required courses between schools and see what is expected from each. Many people will tell you, however, that for voice it is important to get the liberal arts part of the education to give more background to the singing interpretations. You do not even need a BM to go to graduate school as long as you are with a great teacher and get some performance time. And as you said, voice does take longer to develop.</p>

12

<p>Voice is its own world, so I cannot talk about why a conservatory or a music school within a university are better. I tend to agree, I think a lot of people use conservatory to indicate a high level music program, wherever it is located. </p>

<p>What a conservatory, a stand alone music school, offers is an experience that is focused only on music, students generally don’t take a lot of non music courses, and the experience is intense. As others have pointed out string players can spend a lot of hours playing, plus on top of that having theory, etc. In a university setting, the core academic courses can take away from the time that a student would otherwise spend practicing or playing.
For someone immersed in music, it could be an ideal place, simply because they live and breathe music. (and yes, there are those who will tell you a conservatory is less valuable because of that single mindedness, Bard requires a dual major for that very reason, for example). </p>

<p>The other thing about conservatories can be access, because everyone at a conservatory is associated with music in various ways, it can also help with networking and such (this is simply my view of things), and that while access is there at a university based music school, the level of access in the way I am talking about seems a bit more limited (again, my opinion, YMMV). Obviously, it would be ridiculous to make this a blanket rule, since going to let’s say Rice within a university would offer a lot of access…</p>

<p>Okay, so what are the positives of a university program (IMO, obviously). For one, gaining access to a variety of people, where all they are doing is not music…if you follow Charlie Parker’s dictum that you can’t put it through the instrument unless you have lived life, could be important:). Plus, of course, being able to dual major is a possibility (with the caveat that it could distract from time spent practicing etc) and also might act as a ‘safety’ net if the student decides mid stream to drop music…(where applicable). The downside might be not doing music all the time, every time:)</p>

<p>In the end, the key is finding a program that is at a level high enough to drive the student forward, if a program at a university has great vocal teachers, for example, that might work out great (I seem to recall that Rene Fleming went to a SUNY school undergrad, because she couldn’t afford a conservatory), giving them the training they need and also not breaking the bank. It also seems to be different for voice then instrumentalists, in that voice takes a long time to develop, whereas with instrumental music I swear it is getting to be that if a zygote can’t play Rach 3 on the piano or the Tchaikovsky violin concerto they are finis…</p>

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<p>Total agree with musicprnt but add to it that an instrumentalist MUST practice daily just to keep up their ability and then many more hours to improve. A vocalist can not sing for hours each day. So while they can improve languages, diction, theory and music history (which is considerable) their voice will progress only as fast as their body will allow it. Also an instrumentalist does not need to attend graduate school to gain more time in lessons since they are quite developed by then and get hired directly out of college. Many vocalist attend not one but two graduate conservatories in addition to young artist programs on scholarship which affords them free voice lessons and vocal coachings while they wait for their vocal technique to solidify.</p>

<p>My daughter went the conservatory route at a university that only had a minor in music performance so I’m a big proponent of that route - for a vocalist. The difference between my daugher and your son is that she was still undecided whether she wanted to pursue science or music. Your son sounds like he is totally set on music. You seem to believe that a conservatory is more costly then a university…maybe, maybe not depending upon his talent scholarship. Again it depends on his talent as well as how badly they need a baritone in their department that year. That is why you shouldn’t decide now as to whether he applies to conservatory or university. My daughter applied to both as an undergraduate (only graduate conservatories though) and when she sat looking at all her acceptances, then she decided. It bought her many months to decide which path she wanted to pursue. She was ony 17 - I hated to close doors or limit them for such a young vocalist since so much can happen to change their decision.</p>

14

<p>At almost every university and conservatory I visited over the three years leading up to undergrad auditions last year, one of my parents always found a way to ask the question “In your opinion, what is the difference between a school of music within a university and a conservatory?” The unanimous opinion from professors and admissions officers was that when considering the high level schools of music and conservatories, there is absolutely no difference in terms of the quality of training that you will receive. </p>

<p>Personally, the only significant difference that I found when visiting these schools was the personalities and life-style preferences of the students. Students at Rice, Indiana and Northwestern were all just as much music nerds as the students at Juilliard and Curtis.** However, at Rice, IU and NW it seemed that many students were not content with spending every moment of their lives with another musician. The students in the schools of music were just as hard-working, talented, and passionate about their music; they just happened to live on a university campus and interact with students majoring in things other than music.</p>

<p>**I should probably add that I did not end up applying to any conservatories because I decided that I wanted to have a more varied social life during my undergraduate years.</p>

15

<p>I just spoke to my son about his college visit yesterday (Univ of Puget Sound). He liked the program and the teacher, but found out that they require about 8 gen ed classes. I think that is pretty typical of LAC music requirements. How many gen eds do conservatories require? For my S, the fewer the better!</p>

16

<p>My D is a rising soph in VP at Oberlin. No general ed requirements. Here is an outline of the vocal performance courses they require. [Conservatory</a> of Music](<a href=“http://www.oberlin.edu/catalog02/con/conreq/vocal.html]Conservatory”>http://www.oberlin.edu/catalog02/con/conreq/vocal.html). My D wanted the music emphasis but wanted the LAC environment that Oberlin offered.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the info for Oberlin. I did notice that they require 24 hours of liberal arts courses - does that equal about 6 classes? That might be acceptable to S.</p>

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<p>Oberlin aside, I would say there’s a much bigger difference between your typical LAC music program (often it will only be a BA, not a BM, which will have a lower GE requirement) and one within a major university (USC Thornton, NYU, University of Miami, Northwestern, Eastman/Rochester, Rice/Shepherd etc.). </p>

<p>Bigger than the difference between a university-based conservatory (much more likely to offer a BM or performance degree) and a stand-alone conservatory.</p>

<p>FYI, 8 total GE requirements is about typical for a BM, so that surprises me about Puget Sound. I would’ve thought they’d require more. My son has 8 GE requirements (one per semester) at USC Thornton. This was acceptable to our son (who, like yours, is focused on music) and made us very happy, knowing he’d have a degree from a “name” university but still be able to study music at the rigorous, in depth level he desired.</p>

<p>Also know that many stand-alone conservatories also have GE requirements, although these courses are probably not as strong as at a university or LAC.</p>

<p>And often music majors at major universities can get huge academic merit money, even though they’re pursuing music. If they have the grades/stats.</p>

<p>I too suspect your son’s teacher, by “conservatory,” was including top tier university-based performance programs.</p>

19

<p>I know that Jazz/shreddermom may disagree with me, but be careful about the terms
“only a BA”, which imply that in all BA performance programs the level and intensity of music study is less then a BM program. This is in particular to VP. I know that in D’s program, (her room mate was a USC music performance major so she has a certain amount of insight into that BM program) the performance requirements and opportunities for undergrads and grads were similar (and for voice in particular exceeded the BM USC program) . Granted you will have more non music components to the program, but many of your undergrad credits will be for language study, the most critical component of you “non music” credits if you plan to pursue a career in opera. Talk to students and faculty in the programs to find out where the students end up in grad school and in their careers.
Oberlin in particular produces some great voices.</p>

20

<p>You are correct musicamusica: I should not have said “only a BA.” I misspoke. I only meant “only” insofar as it <em>typically</em> (not always, I suppose) means a lower ratio of music to GE courses in contrast to a BM. Certainly there is much to be said for a BA!</p>