<p>I wouldn’t say “wrong”, that implies a judgement that is not mine to make. It is, as I said, sad to me that a child who doesn’t enjoy the sport will have to spend 15-20 hours a week for several months or more doing something s/he doesn’t like to do.</p>
<p>Now of course some kids don’t like to do school work either but in that case, in my home at least, that is something they have to do whether they enjoy it or not. And that is in part because I want them to go to college, and be successful adults. To me an EC is different, it should be something that you enjoy. But I would never say a child can’t * or is wrong* to participate even if s/he doesn’t enjoy it. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think kids can put any ECs they participate in on their college apps. They don’t have to enjoy them to do them, but I personally wouldn’t want my kids to pursue ECs they didn’t enjoy “just for the app”, I’d encourage them to find ones that they do enjoy instead.</p>
<p>Yes, it is wrong waste of the child’s time and might very well prevent him from finding some other activity or interest that he could be passionate about.</p>
<p>Note that this does not apply to activities that have some intrinsic benefit – a child has to do HW and help with household chores whether or not he finds doing it enjoyable.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, ECs are now something that is just as essential for admission to selective colleges as schoolwork. This has changed ECs from being something you do because you enjoy them (or don’t do if you don’t enjoy them) to being something that’s as much a requirement as algebra and chemistry.</p>
<p>That was the point I was trying to make.</p>
<p>I also don’t want kids who lack a passion for their ECs to feel guilty about participating in them, any more than kids without a genuine passion for the life of the mind should feel guilty about trying hard in school.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Up to a certain point in time, this makes sense. But remember that for top colleges, a student has to show a substantial commitment to the EC, usually with either significant accomplishments or leadership roles. The student who jumps from one activity to another all the way to senior year will not spend enough time in any one activity to accomplish anything notable or serve in a leadership role. So at some point, it may be necessary to say “It’s time to stop exploring now and put your efforts into one of the things you’re already doing, whether or not you actually like it.”</p>
<p>This is not all that different from the requirement that college students must choose a major at a certain point, whether or not they have found a subject that truly inspires them.</p>
<p>I agree Ohio. My kids participate in their EC because they enjoy them and get satisfaction from these activities. We’re not the kind of parents to force a kid into an EC just so it would look good on a college app. Homework is a different matter.</p>
<p>It’s important in our house that the kids have a buy-in regarding their future. We live in a rural area that has been hard hit by the economic downturn. They see everyday the result of not having skills or a college education, so they are motivated. But they are still kids and I want them to enjoy what childhood they have left.</p>
<p>There are positives to living in the country. Teacher at D’s prep school in the city asked if anyone knew what a gelding (neutered horse) was. D was the only one witht he answer. Next question was What is a steer? A girl answers - a pig? Another kid says, “it’s what you steer a horse with?” Scary.</p>
<p>Using the same logic, one could argue that young people who don’t have sufficient self-motivation and interest in academic subjects to work hard at their schoolwork without being required to do so by their parents don’t belong at elite colleges, either.</p>
<p>Yet we force our kids to do their homework, and we do our best to motivate them to do well in school, don’t we?</p>
<p>If that is so, and I’d argue it’s still way down on the list below academic achievements at most colleges, I still wouldn’t force them to do ECs as I force them to do homework or attend school. Maybe because I still believe they are something you do because you enjoy them.</p>
<p>…and I imagine that admissions staff or interviewer would not be thrilled to hear Dick/Jane tell the truth about those ECs either: “my parents made me play basketball for 4 years because they thought it would help me get into college. I actually don’t like to play at all and can’t wait to stop”.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think they should feel guilty at all. I imagine they feel bad enough being forced to spend all that time doing something they hate.</p>
<p>I agree that all the emphasis on passion does a disservice to those who are not naturally passionate, or haven’t found their passion while still in high school. My daughter is a top 2% student who enjoys studying, without being what I’d call passionately fond of it, has spent quite a lot of time drawing ever since elementary school days, and is pretty good at it but isn’t passionate about that either. She claims that she enjoys art as a hobby, but wouldn’t want to do it as a career. She does or has done some sports (one quite seriously, for a few years) but isn’t passionate about those either, nor about music although she’s fairly talented in that area as well. She used to really worry that there was something wrong with her because she hasn’t “found her passion” yet. I think maybe she’s just not all that passionate a person, and after all, she is only 17.</p>
<p>I’m happy for people who find their passion in time to make a great college application, but I think it’s harsh, to say the least, to suggest that those who aren’t as passionate don’t belong at an elite school.</p>
<p>I also wonder to what extent some of the “passionate” people are self-deluded. My daughter commented that a friend of hers claims to have a passion for biology, which is the friend’s intended college major. However, D noticed that in AP Bio class, the passionate friend seemed to spend a lot of time looking out the window while, D, who does not claim a passion for biology, was attending to the lecture and taking notes, because she found it interesting.</p>
<p>When I was in high school, I had plenty of self-motivation but no particular interest in academic subjects. I worked hard at schoolwork, but only for what I could get out of it (recognition, college acceptance, the possibility of a good job later on). I ended up being valedictorian and I was admitted to a very selective college (actually, several of them). Quite a few of my classmates (including some of my friends) thought it was a travesty that a person with no genuine intellectual interests should be valedictorian (and I agreed with them, but I couldn’t exactly change my GPA at that point). They also thought that it was an abomination for me to take a place at a good college that might otherwise have gone to someone who loved the life of the mind (and I kind of agreed with them on that point, too, but I still went to the college, although I have always felt guilty for doing so). I have always felt like a fraud – that somehow, it was wrong for me to study and excel in school because I did not love what I was doing.</p>
<p>Compared to that, caring about whether or not someone loves their ECs seems kind of trivial. ECs are an afterthought.</p>
<p>I think those are all valid reasons to study and anyone who does the work - whether they are *passionate *about it or not - deserves to study further if that’s what they want to do. I sure wouldn’t feel guilty about that.</p>
<p>I feel that ECs are activities that kids should participate in because they want to. (Maybe they want to because it will help them get into college and I certainly would never say such a kid shouldn’t be allowed to be participate.) But it’s not my personal parenting philosophy to force it, and I don’t think that colleges - if they like ECs because they want rich and varied student life on campus - get much out of the bargain either, since kids who are forced are unlikely to stay with the EC once they aren’t forced anymore.</p>
<p>Marian, I think it is possible you and I could be the same person. Could you check and see if you are wearing a black 3/4 sleeve v-neck t-shirt?</p>
<p>Well if you did not have other criteria to measure in addition to Grades and SAT scores, it would become like the situation in Japan and other countries.</p>
<p>What I understand is that in Japan you write an entrance exam and if you are the top, you go to the University of Tokyo, and if you are the bottom you go to a university in middle of nowhere. One exam does it for you. It sets you for the rest of your life.</p>
<p>What happens if you are not a good test taker. Or that you did not study hard for the exam as you were busy saving the world or helping the poor neighbor or teaching pre-schoolers to swim.</p>
<p>Do they not deserve to go Harvard to? Or should Harvard be reserved for those who score a 2400 in the SAT only?</p>
<p>You can’t tell me CalTech and MIT care if you taught preschoolers to swim.</p>
<p>EC’s dont just matter in high school… I’d say they are important in college as well as someone in the working world. My company flew 20 employees + a guest per person to a resort in California a few years ago for a 5 day paid vacation… They were chosen based on the amount of volunteer work they did in a year. They didn’t tell them about the trip ahead of time either… so people couldn’t start volunteering to get a free vacation out of it.</p>
<p>So am I to assume correctly that EC’s draw the distinction between two equally academically able candidates? What if one person is a soccer champ and another is an ice skater? Preference of the committee?</p>
<p>Just trying to get a clear picture of the process.</p>
<p>That is mainly the case with super-selective schools which can fill their freshman classes many times over with “near maximum GPA and test score” applicants. So they “need” to find something else to distinguish between the large number of such applicants.</p>
<p>A typical moderately selective state university probably admits by GPA (and/or rank) and test score formula, or close to it.</p>
<p>As far as how ECs are considered, that is usually subject to an opaque holistic process that may not be especially consistent from one year to the next (or even for applications read first or last).</p>
<p>Yes, I would say exactly that. There are other perfectly good colleges for them to attend, where they can excel at their academic subjects and work hard, and gain credentials to go out in the working world and do more of the same. There is no reason for them to go to the elite schools that purport to train the creators and leaders of the future. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Perhaps you would’ve been happier – and equally successful in life – had you attended a college to which you were more temperamentally suited?</p>