This has been pissing me off for the past couple of days. Why is it that an American-born citizen has to take a foreign language in high school for two years, but yet an international student gets to bypass that requirement? How is that fair that international students get it easier than we do? I mean, I’m sorry if doing actual important courses, such as calculus, differential equations, and physics, got in the way of doing mundane Spanish 1, 2, and 3. What makes international students special anyways that they get a nice wink from admissions? Ugh, am I the only one who feels this way?
<>
What is English for those students? (Ever hear of the TOEFL score requirements? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test_of_English_as_a_Foreign_Language )
1 Like
An international student in a non-English speaking school in a non-English speaking country is presumably learning English as his/her foreign language.
At some schools (e.g. California public universities), the requirement is listed as “language other than English”, which can be fulfilled by course work or tested proficiency in various ways.
1 Like
Yep, pretty obvious: Internationals applying to college in the US are already assumed to be (at least) bilingual. Most internationals I know (I’ve been teaching in Asian for 13 years) speak more than two languages fluently.
Well, maybe those Asians you are teaching are looking to be polyglots? However, I just want to be an engineer. Why do I need to go through that trouble of taking another language course? I mean, if I was studying abroad, then I understand why I would need to learn a second language. But to study in my own home country? What is the purpose? Does calculating the hydrostatic pressure of an object submerged or calculating the resistance and junctions of an electrical network require fluency of a foreign language that I am not aware of? If I want to learn a second language, then I would do it on my own time at my own pace. My father was president of the French club at his school from taking 2 years of French. Today, he doesn’t remember a single sentence of French.
That is why I believe our education system is flawed.
I believe in the sentiment that foreign languages should be taught for a variety of reasons, not least of which because neurological studies showing an increase and alteration in the grey matter of the brain, thereby allowing a greater amount of efficiency in knowledge processing. In addition, learning a foreign language is one of the only opportunities people have in high school in being exposed to another contemporary culture, which I believe is integral in ensuring open-mindedness.
I do think, though, that they should be teaching languages earlier while minds are still pliable and capable of absorbing information. That way, the language sticks with people longer.
1 Like
“Well, maybe those Asians you are teaching are looking to be polyglots?”
No, OP. It’s the American students who are the outliers here. Been to any country other than US? Most kids except the very poorest learn at least one other language in school and often several. AND those that want to come here speak English (rarely their first language) well enough to get through our exams, write essays, etc…Spouse has to study 3 languages in addition to English before he came to the US as an engineering grad student and he was not unusual. The fact is, once you’ve learned one language, it tends to be easier to learn others…he’s got 7 under various stages of control right now, which he has used for work.
You may never use your foreign language again - but being exposed to another culture through the language is valuable.
1 Like
IBscholar, the answer is not as simple as that. The question is, what do these kids want to do with their lives? There are different strokes for different folks. I agree that those pursuing a liberal arts track, or those wanting to go into communications or foreign affairs should definitely take foreign language courses as it will help them with their career path. However, if is not as fundamental for someone who wishes to get into engineering or sciences and does not have plans to work offshore. That whole theory about improved intelligence can be obtained through learning anything. To be honest with you, I think learning programming languages and learning mathematics can be as significant, if not, more significant than learning a foreign language for those pursuing an engineering-oriented field.
As for the whole multicultural thing, as I have said, it is important depending on what each individual wants to do. It should not be forced down on everyone, especially those who want to pursue STEM-related fields. For those who want to major in a studies degree or communications, then sure, give them the “multicultural” experience. However, for those like me who are already taking a crap-ton of credits for our pre-reqs, then there should be an exception. The fact that we have mixed up priorities is the reason why the education system is soo messed up.
News flash:
**They call it Higher EDUCATION for a reason, not TRADE SCHOOL **
You learn a foreign language to be EDUCATED-- just like u pick up some other courses (e.g., history, art, psyschology) not directly related to your engineering major to make you a well-rounded human being, not a robot.
As an engineer myself, I can converse intelligently on many non-engineering topics. These skills & interests have served me well professionally and have opened many career progression doors for me beyond just sitting in a cubicle like a mushroom, crunching hydrostatic pressure calculations.
Working professionally overseas for more than a decade, I’ve never used my HS Spanish. But understanding the stucture of one foreign language made it easier to pick up my second foreign language and my third foreign language.
1 Like
“You may never use your foreign language again - but being exposed to another culture through the language is valuable.”
Again, depending on what your major is. People are different, though. What works for Asians might be different for Americans. Besides, you are talking about Asians who want to study in America. Since America is an English-speaking country, then of course he needs to learn English before coming here to study. That is the same as me having to learn mandarin or Japanese to study at a university in China or Japan, respectively.
I understand that there are benefits to learning different languages. However, we are talking about engineering students here in America who wants to work in the United States in their own home country with no plans for working abroad. Why should they be burdened with 2 years of a foreign language in addition to a year and a half of calculus, differential equations, physics, and chemistry?
“You learn a foreign language to be EDUCATED-- just like u pick up some other courses (e.g., history, art, psyschology) not directly related to your engineering major to make you a well-rounded human being, not a robot.”
Of course. I am not complaining about learning English, history, humanities, social sciences, etc. However, to be forced to learn a foreign language via courses that don’t even do a good job at teaching foreign languages in the first place is absurd. You do realize that people who work in the government can learn a langue in six months much more effectively than two years at school, right?
I even have plans for working abroad myself. However, I am pretty much self-teaching myself mandarin and eventually, I plan on learning it more formally as well.
A lot of you forget as well, that the reason why other countries are learning other languages (particularly English), is because it is fundamental for being successful today. For Americans, however, there is no purpose for those who have no reason for working abroad to learn it. Even if they do have to learn it, there are much more effective ways for learning second languages other than traditional courses. I am all for education, but our current system is very messed up, and our country’s rank in education compared to the rest of the world right now pretty much proves that our system is a joke.
You’ve already acknowledged that there are plenty of good reasons.
Are you just fishing for some Holy Grail that will make colleges change their policy on this?
1 Like
If you work for a global company, you might need a foreign lang. My dh is an engineer and we have moved internationally for plant start-ups. And, no, the people in the plant did not speak to him in English. He conducted business in their language.
1 Like
I fail to see how this same argument couldn’t also be applied to other non-engineering subjects, like anthology or fine arts.
1 Like
OP, the system is what it is.
Students who want to go to college here in the US are expected to have learned 2 languages- regardless of whether they are from this country or another country.
Quit whining. It accomplishes nothing and changes nothing- or post your discontent on this thread specifically designed for rants
1 Like
“I fail to see how this same argument couldn’t also be applied to other subjects, like anthology or fine arts.”
It’s quite simple, really. I am not sure about anthropology, but for fine arts or any other course you are taking for the purpose of completing gen ed requirements, you tend to forget what you have learned by the time the course is complete. If you take a foreign language course in the same manner, then who is to say that you won’t forget everything after completing the course? Like I said, my father was president of the French club of his school since he obtained the highest grades in his French courses. However, without constant application, then all of the knowledge just goes out the window.
Unless there is a purpose for the foreign language you are learning, then it is going to be a waste of x number of years since you will forget most of what you have learned after completing the course(s). So all you are doing by making it a requirement is adding more unnecessary obstacles.
Besides, I always thought that education was about self-motivation for learning. Since when is being forced to learn a language that has no benefits to an individual carry more pros than cons?
“Students who want to go to college here in the US are expected to have learned 2 languages- regardless of whether they are from this country or another country.”
There is a good reason for my complaint. Like I said, it is much more beneficial for a foreigner to learning English than an American being forced to learn, say, Spanish. It is more of a burden for Americans to learn a non-English language that they are unsure if they will even use than for a foreigner to learning English. That is why I think that the requirements should force even international students to learning a secondary non-English language.
Big whoop. We all did these and survived.
Our K-12 education system is being compared to countries where the parents spend a large portion of their household income to supplement w after school private cram sessions/tutoring (Singapore, SKorea, China), or to countries whose racially homogeneous populations are the size of a US suburb.
OTOH, the quality of our higher education is the envy of the world…
1 Like
"How is that fair that international students get it easier than we do? I mean, I’m sorry if doing actual important courses, such as calculus, differential equations, and physics, got in the way of doing mundane Spanish 1, 2, and 3. "
You are funny. First, what do you think is English for an International Student? Second, you know that International student not only have to take ACT SAT and stuff, but also the TOEFL exam… never heard of that?
Third, most international student are forced to study a third language at school. (yeah, exactly. not even a second language(!), which is English, but a third that can be either Spanish, German or French usually)
And lastly, you say “how is that fair that international students get it easier than we do?”… Probably you never had the chance to study in a not-american school. I’m speaking as an Italian guy (who is studying NOW in US), and I’m sorry but you guys would not survive even one week in the european school systems.
1 Like
It’s pretty obvious that every international student who attends college in the US speaks their native tongue plus English well enough to study here. We Americans are the real outliers in the world. The average Starbucks employee in Europe will speak better English than most Americans can speak a foreign language.
Aside from broadening your horizons, and making you smarter, you just never know when you might need a language. My husband got an opportunity to do a post-doctoral fellowship in Germany. Because I’d studied it in college, I was able to go with him and work there. I wish I knew more Spanish because as an architect, I have a number of Hispanic clients with limited language skills.
Here’s why Harvard thinks you should study a foreign language: http://artsandhumanities.fas.harvard.edu/book/why-study-foreign-language
1 Like