I don’t think it’s my imagination that more students seem to be taking DE courses. Many also appear to be taking the usual max AP/IB classes too. I saw a post today by a freshman who seems to have started the IB diploma program but is also taking DE classes at community college.
Is this a case of more high schools offering DE as an option because they don’t have many AP or IB classes? Are high schools offering these classes now so that students can fulfill core requirements and the high schools are trying to save money? Or are students desperate for ways to stand out and overloading themselves with academics? Or something else?
I would have thought that by now, the message would be clear that selective colleges are not looking for academic drones.
Courses taken at the college with the general college population.
What level or subject matter?
Courses for material more advanced than AP or IB courses (e.g. multivariable calculus).
Courses for material in subjects not ordinarily offered in high school (e.g. philosophy, sociology).
Courses for material ordinarily found in AP or IB courses, but the high school chooses not to offer such AP or IB courses (e.g. single variable calculus).
Courses for material below AP or IB level (e.g. intermediate algebra).
I don’t know. I’m noticing that more students/parents seem to be including this information here on CC. I have definitely seen at least a couple of students mention this in terms of higher math classes, but it seems to be in general.
Do others think there have been more people posting about this? Maybe I’m just here too much😆
First, D’s school has limited APs and honors classes available and we were worried about demonstrating rigor to future colleges. That was the initial interest in DE. Then she discovered all the interesting topics available for study through DE - anthropology, sociology, philosophy, different genres of art and literature. In short, a college catalog of interesting classes! Then she discovered that the credits would all transfer if she attended a UC or CSU. And on top of that, DE classes here are free for high school students. So free college credit. It was a win across the board for us.
What I’ve noticed is more kids taking DE classes in place of an “equivalent” AP offered at their school. At least that has jumped out at me. And then all the resultant posts about how the private college they’ve selected won’t accept the DE, but would have the AP (with appropriate score).
I will mention that, in the case of our school, students are not allowed to enroll in a DE class if the equivalent is offered at the high school. So at least some districts put the brakes on this.
I know in my school district/state, it seems like Running Start (our district’s name for the DE program) is a double-edged sword. It reduces the funding the school district gets from the state (because the students are p/t HS and p/t college, even if it’s only 1 class at the local CC – so the funding to the district for that student is reduced as well). However, it’s cheap/subsidized college credits for kids who are in families that aren’t sure how to afford college. So, if those kids can knock off 1 year of college during HS, the family has a better shot at not being eyes-deep in debt (or the kid has a better shot at finishing college before they turn 30 by working and taking CC classes).
As school funding gets tighter, the local CC might have more class choices available than the HS. We’re facing some ugly cuts this coming year, and it’s unfortunate for kids who made it through a pandemic to face the loss of music and drama (among other things).
From what I’ve seen of our Running Start kids – they’re not headed towards highly rejective LACs back east. They’re hoping to get a college diploma before they have to work retail for the rest of their lives, and maybe get a job that allows them to sit down sometimes.
That makes sense and is appropriate guidance from the school system. Edit: Based on the previous post, I guess it is also keeping funding at the high school. I’ve been surprised at the number of posts this year with kids opting for the DE track in place of APs.
But maybe that’s somewhat a regional thing too. I don’t hear about it here.
DE is a very popular option in my school district because they are a way for families to save money on higher education. Students can start their associate’s degree in high school and then complete it at the local CC (which does offer a few 4 year degrees) before transferring to the public in-state universities. I hope it’s working out for them. It’s a very popular program, but I am only acquainted with the high school families/ new CC students who are doing it. DS is sticking with AP and increasing the load each year because he plans to go to a four year school straight from high school and that seems to be a more transferrable path if that is the student’s goal.
We also have a very popular tech/vocational ed track in our district for students who are interested in that path.
Here in WA, DE actually reduces funding to the public school district (since the student is no longer f/t HS, but becomes p/t HS, p/t CC). However, the amount it decreases funding may be lower than the cost of offering AP classes at every HS in the district. I don’t know the ins and outs of all the budget stuff – only what I’ve picked up in the last month during the current budget fight to keep classes at the HS my kid attends, and not lose good teachers.
Our LPS has DE options when the equivalent AP/IB classes aren’t offered. They also have a fairly robust vocational school starting junior year. HS classes in the morning and vocational in the afternoon. Kids earn certifications in various trades, like HVAC technician. Delta is partnering with that program to provide some type of mechanic training with the plan to hire kids straight out of high school. Not a bad option at all for the right kid.
I think it is widely due to higher ed institutions (mostly public but some privates, as well) marketing DE courses more as a way to increase revenue/supplement low enrollment numbers. With so many states paying for the DE courses themselves, it’s a huge market for universities. Not to mention that it’s also a way for them to promote their university to local high school students AND their families to consider in the future. The local university here has had hiring freezes in the past but still continued to hire full-time dual enrollment instructors and advisors because they needed to increase enrollment/revenue, and they invested A LOT of money into marketing those DE programs.
Personally, I only recommend DE to students who know they are going to stay in-state at either the institution the DE credits were earned from or another public that has agreements with that university to accept the credits.
I’m a bit embarrassed to ask this question, as it will reveal my utter ignorance about Dual Enrollment, but here goes. My kid takes 5 academic subjects in high school along with an advanced band/ensemble, and those 6 slots fulfill the A-G requirements for UC/CSU. In addition, there’s the varsity sport along with the extracurriculars / volunteer activities. For kids doing Dual Enrollment, does that mean that these kids are doing more like 7-8 academic classes at a time, ie., 6 high school A-G classes PLUS 2 community college classes?
Or can you lighten the high school coursework by taking the DE course so long as your high school doesn’t offer the DE subject? And if you took DE course in, say, anthropology and sociology, does the UC/CSU recognize those in the A-G count?
For my D, she started off taking the DE classes in the summer (in our district you are allowed a maximum of 3).
She later took some academic year DE classes in senior year after she had completed most of her graduation requirements and decided that the electives offered by the community college were more interesting to her than the electives offered at her school - so she took 5 core courses at the high school, then 3 DE electives.
And yes UC/CSU recognize these courses in the A-G count, and they will also count toward fulfilling general ed requirements after matriculation to UC/CSU.
My son’s dual enrollment classes are often also AP. He’s taking the dual enrollment class, but also taking the AP test. His school has a program where advanced students can earn their AA degree concurrently with the high school diploma. I do think these programs have gotten more popular.
California students can look up listings at University of California A-G Course List to see which a-g category courses at California community colleges fulfill for UC and CSU frosh admission. Note that transferable college courses do count as honors for GPA recalculation (and CSU but not UC counts a semester college course as two courses and grades).
For subject credit transferability of California community college courses to UCs and CSUs, see https://www.assist.org .
For some students, DE classes are a better option if they will stay instate and the state colleges take the DE credits with a C or higher (options vary by location - community college, tech college, 4 year local, online state college) and they think they may not get a 3,4, or 5 needed for the AP credit.
For the average excellent CC student taking AP, DE, virtual HS classes, etc…, they seem to be looking at angles and racking up what they can for no real purpose. AOs from highly selective colleges and state flagship programs I have talked to over the years do not value taking more than what is required by the enrolled high school in a given year. That will not make or break an application.
There are some students that try to build up their weighted GPA, as there are more options for DE and they are usually weighted more than honors or college prep classes.
The schedule can vary. It works best with high schools on a block schedule and not year long classes.
Ohio has a program called College Credit Plus for advanced students to take college credits for free. I believe the point is to make college more affordable since so many gen eds can be taken in advance of graduating HS and then transferrable to instate publics.
When my D was in HS, the only DE credits were for classes that didn’t have an AP equivalent. They were taught in the HS, by HS teachers, but the course followed the college syllabus and grading rubric. The pace was much faster than a typical HS course. Now students are able to take the DE courses either at the HS or on the college campus. The school has partnerships with 4 local universities. There are 13 DE courses listed that are taught at the HS and then a full course catalog at the universities. They only have 11 AP courses offered.
we have the governors school where the top kids from different schools in our area go off-site and take DE math/science/English classes for half the day and then to the regular HSs for the remainder. In general, the classes and teachers are much better than the AP classes at the HS. It feels like they treat the students more like college students.
They can graduate with an associates degree and the credits carry over to in-state publics and also many of the privates (W&L accepted them). They are free and no tests needed. A much better deal if you’re staying in-state - which covers the vast majority of people around here.
The high school/community college also offers some more vocational/advanced manufacturing DE classes. It’s pretty new and I’m not real familiar with that.