Why are so many uninformed about the college process

Parents Forum
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<p>This was the attitude of the parents of the Val. of S1’s class. Both parents are educators but didn’t get involved with helping their D in choosing the right school to maximize her chances for merit money. They assumed that because she was the Val, had never made a B in her life and had good EC’s that schools would throw money at her. She applied to state schools (in and oos) and a well regarded private to which she was a legacy.<br>
They/she didn’t realize that her SAT was not enough to make her competitive for big merit money at the big state u’s and def. not at the private she applied to. Whenever I asked the Mom how the college process was going, she would say “oh, D is taking care of it”. They were very surprised when she didn’t get merit offers from the big state u’s.
Ironically, some kids in the class did get merit money from some of the big state u’s.</p>

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<p>I can’t blame the clueless parents. I feel the blame rests with the GC.</p>

<p>We were interested parents who attend the HS College Info sessions. Their advise was to just apply to many (about six) schools and compare FA/scholarship offers. No mention that some families need to chase FA vs merit scholarsihps. In fact, the next day I mailed the GC a link to the online FAFSA calculators…it was new news to her. (Note - this was 2006 - there is a chance that GC are more web savvy now). </p>

<p>This was my experience at one of the top ranked HS in the state - can’t say how the others worked.</p>

<p>CC takes a lot of time. But provides valuable education. And tis a good reminder that students talented with their HS have talented peers from the whole US.</p>

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<p>I feel like my mom falls into the category of uninformed. Never heard of half of the schools I’m applying to (she had never heard of Dartmouth and thought Penn was Penn State), and she thinks I’m going to get in everywhere. </p>

<p>So yeah, I’ve basically been soloing this process. If it weren’t for CC I don’t know what I’d do.</p>

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<p>Around where I live, this isn’t at all the case. The parents are so familiar with so many colleges having visited them for forever that you’d think they were a college guidance counselor. In this part of the country, parents live through their kids vicariously.</p>

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<p>RobD is right. At my high school, the vast majority go to Bama or Auburn (70%?). This includes really bright kids who would be competitive at other more highly ranked places. A few to UAB, Samford, BSC, Ole Miss, LSU. The numbers looking at the highly selective schools - in single digits. Why? Most people’s parents went to Bama/Auburn and there are distict legacy/family ties to these places, especially with the football obsession. When I said I was looking at places other than Bama, my friends all thought I was crazy…</p>

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<p>I’ve told people about CC but warn them they might feel like everyone is a top student or overlydriven parent, if they just look once. It’s a world of information and nice people but can be off-putting depending which posts you read first. : )</p>

<p>I couldn’t believe how many people I met that never heard of the ACT 2 years ago. One parent later thanked me because her daughter didn’t do as well on the SAT. Her GC seemed to have a blank look when she mentioned it and then said, “Oh yes, I thought that wasn’t used as much here”. </p>

<p>Even parents who think their child will just go to their state school don’t look at the options available. For instance one parent thought her son had to go to one state school because he could live home (cheaper) she didn’t know a better state school had a program where if you got a 1200 or better you got 1/2 tuition if you kept a certain GPA which wasn’t that high. That opened up another option. </p>

<p>I admit, not many people want to be up bleary eyed at 12am, but if it would save money and help, I’ll do it. But even a US News magazine can help with tests, tips, etc. It’s overwhelming but doesn’t have to be quite as much.</p>

<p>I saved some brochures from colleges FA info, the last US News, college tour videos and school DVD’s and recent SAT books and gave them to friends and my daughter’s high school. Even if they help one person, we don’t need them anymore.</p>

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<p>I think that many families assume that the high school will inform them of everything they need to know – just as the school system provided the necessary information for the transitions from elementary to middle school and from middle school to high school.</p>

<p>And this may work for the student who aspires only to the local community college or the state university system. GCs tend to be well informed about those, and in most instances (high-ranking flagships excepted), the admissions process is straightforward and does not require a lot of advance preparation. Those mid-junior-year “getting ready for college” mass meetings are sufficient to start what is, for most kids, a fairly straightforward process.</p>

<p>But few public school GCs have the time (or in many cases, the knowledge) to deal with the sophisticated issues faced by families whose child aspires to more competitive, specialized, or geographically distant colleges.</p>

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<p>To add insult to injury, at our school’s college information night:</p>

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<li><p>Not only did the guidance counselor not emphasize the need to get a ballpark estimate of the family’s expected contribution using available resources like online calculators, but he perpetuated misinformation about need-based aid. We live in an affluent county with many families consisting of two full-time employed parents where a household income of $200K isn’t unusual at all: these families are mostly going to be full-pay regardless of whether they have a thin dime saved for college or not. Merit aid–the fact that some schools offer it and some don’t, the fact that it goes to the kids at the top of the particular school’s applicant pool (i.e., you probably won’t get it at your “reach”)–wasn’t mentioned.</p></li>
<li><p>A handout listing admissions statistics for colleges popular among our school’s graduates was distributed. Rather than giving the breakdowns from College Board, they had, for some reason, collapsed the data so that the highest category of GPA was 3.5. Thus, they showed, for example, what percent of matriculants to Princeton had a GPA of at least 3.5, which obscures the fact that the College Board data would tell you they almost ALL had a GPA in excess of 3.75–an important distinction that would kids with a 3.5 with unrealistic expectations. </p></li>
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<p>On the other hand, they were good about a few things–encouraging kids to approach their teachers for letters of recommendation before summer break, encouraging to come in over the summer to meet with the guidance counselor, and being VERY CLEAR that everyone should apply to our state flagship by the “priority” deadline. </p>

<p>As much as I complain, I have a colleague at work who has a son who’s a junior in the next county, and she didn’t get even this much guidance.</p>

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<p>I wish I had been more clued in when my older child was in middle school, as I would have had her take a few different classes. I really didn’t think I needed to be thinking about it that early. </p>

<p>On the other hand, toward the end of D’s sophomore year in HS she and I met with her then GC at the school and the person acted like “why are you even here?”. ( note: D was assigned to a different and better GC junior and senior years).</p>

<p>Thankfully, in the end things worked out just fine for D.</p>

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<p>I am one of those moms who knew nothing about the college process. My parents did not go to college. My father never even graduated high school. I had no support but I knew that I did not want to struggle like my parents did. I applied to the cc two miles from my house. When I had my children I stressed the importance of performing well in school. Using the internet, local book store and library I learned the college admission process. Wow, what an eye opener. The wealthy educated family has such an advantage it is simply unbelievable. The ability to pay for boarding school and private tutors really gives these kids a leg up. The SAT, is a test that most kids would perform well on if they had the resources that the wealthy kids have. I truly believe this because my son used the collegeboard review books and was able to score close to a 2100.This nation does a poor job of informing students and parents about the college admission process. This is very unfortunate because the population that is growing the fastest does not have the resources or support to successfully compete. In the end we are all hurt by this situation…we will be a nation with a less educated population. Just sad.</p>

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<p>When my older daughter was a sophomore we first heard something about SAT II tests. Once I realized that I was woefully uninformed about the college process today, I immediately started researching what needed to be done. </p>

<p>It’s amazing how bad our guidance counselors are. The new principal wants sophomores to take the PSAT as practice for more NMSF but has not put together a better plan for the SATs to be taken before May of Junior year! I have yet to meet someone (professional or parent) who thinks that’s a good time for your first SAT.</p>

<p>Realizing the lack of information coming out of the high school I have begun college prep with my GS troop. We started gently during their sophomore year and have moved more deeply into it this year, their junior year. I still have one girl who is planning on making her first SAT in May because that’s what our school “recommends” but I sent an email out to her parents suggesting (as the college counselor who spoke to the girls on Sunday did) she take the March test even if she feels she’s not prepared, just to get her started with the endurance part of the test.</p>

<p>I think many parents in good school districts assume the school will take care of the college process when I have found over and over again that that is not the case.</p>

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<p>amtc: what a wonderful idea for you to do that for your GS troop!</p>

<p>I don’t know how much blame I’d put on the GC’s. Even in a high performing district, the GC’s have responsibility for far more than college stuff. And in our case each GC is responsible for about 350 kids. I just pulled last years grad stuff: exactly 50% of our students go to 1 of 3 state schools; another 9% go to other instate publics. 14% go to instate privates, 14% go to adjacent state publics (including my D) while 4% went to adjacent state privates. That leaves only 9% going anywhere remotely different and that includes the military, working, etc. I’m sure the vast majority of parents think our GC’s do fine. I don’t have an issue with them either, they’ve always been very helpful when we’ve needed them. </p>

<p>We had friends visit over the holidays. They are very interested in the college process & have a high achieving D who is a sophomore. D1 & I were questioned heavily about her process. I was surprised to hear that their school has a college counselor but frankly our discussions in my library with all my college stuff strewn about gave them far more info than the college counselor did.</p>

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<p>I knew nothing when my older D started the application process. My DH (then fiance) knew a little bit, as his younger D was an athletic recruit to Dartmouth. But none of my kids are athletic recruit material.</p>

<p>In older D’s case, her guidance counselor was very helpful, and pointed her towards the types of schools she should apply to. She actually had always loved the Colgate campus, and was admitted with an excellent financial aid package. I was stunned when I saw her FA package, and I had thought she would end up at a SUNY for financial reasons even if admitted to Colgate. </p>

<p>I have learned so much since. Older S’s application process, then younger D’s initial application process, then her transferring process have taught me much. </p>

<p>I feel like a relative expert now with younger S, since this is now my fifth (and my husband’s sixth) time through it.</p>

<p>But had you asked me in 2003 about the college application process, I would have told you things I recall from 1979-1980 when <em>I</em> applied, and it was a very different application world then.</p>

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<p>Look at your own post, which points out that anyone who can read, think a little, and has the desire can learn whatever he needs to know about the process. As someone who came from a family without a college graduate, and a father who didn’t finish high school, I can tell you that anyone with the god given talent to do the work can learn about these opportunities. </p>

<p>One of the things that holds people back is the belief that it doesn’t matter. Part of this belief comes from the view that the world is “rigged” and that no matter how good you are, or where you go, if you don’t come from the right side of the tracks you are screwed. </p>

<p>I 've heard Henry Ford quoted as “whether you think you can, or you think you can’t, you are probably right”.</p>

<p>Re: Guidance counselors. Sadly, I’d gladly accept a randomly chosen CC’er as our head guidance counselor right now. I have 100% confidence that we would have better information and services. It’s like everything else. You have to want to embrace responsibility for it, and you have to think that it matters. In the end, this applies to the OP issue about parents too.</p>

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<p>Here, our problem is the school. They hired a new counselor this year, and so far, she seems very good. The past 3 years however, when my son was in HS, the counselor was terrible. We did not have meetings about college. She had a baby just before school started senior year & we had to insist she have a senior orientation - which was also a joke.</p>

<p>She had a roll-a-dex with possible scholarships. If a student or parent wanted to see them, all they had to do was come in. Ok, should the student miss Chemistry, or Trig to view this roll-a-dex? Should the parent take a vacation day to come to her office -which closes at 3:30?! Also a joke.</p>

<p>Typically, kids around here, take the ACT. NO ONE talks about the SATs. I only found out that ‘eastern’ schools prefer the SAT when I read it here on cc.</p>

<p>We do have the ‘college prep’ certificate - certain amount of credits, courses,etc. But that’s it as far as college goes. They do not offer information on applications, etc. Everything we found out…we found out on our own.</p>

<p>We are in a rural area of the midwest and commonly, kids just go to the state schools. We have several and they choose depending on what they want to study. Typically, the Valedictorian & Salutatorian get ‘all’ the scholarships at graduation & on awards day. Unfortunately, I think it is the ‘norm’ to go to a handfull of certain schools and no one even considers anything else. Those schools don’t have ED , etc. Some have rolling applications, etc. </p>

<p>I’ve read here on CC about how stressful all the application process was, etc. We did not experience any of that. My son picked an in-state school, which is considered ‘top’ here compared to the other schools. He applied in October, received his acceptance letter 2 weeks later, sent in enrollment form before Christmas. Done. The stressful part was the essays for various scholarships. I think that was stressful because we had to find them on our own.</p>

<p>As far as merit scholarships, I was disappointed to find most are for TOP students. Not the 3.7 gpa kid with tons of extra curriculars, community service, and school envolvement. Most of the colleges here, you need a 28 or higher ACt score to even be considered. There is nothing for anyone under that. The average kid is a good student, but not ‘advanced’.</p>

<p>I have learned alot here on CC - most parents don’t know CC exists.</p>

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<p>The GC’s at our h.s. are way more involved with students with behavior issues than those seeking college advice. When S1 was a junior, I spoke to a GC about ROTC scholarships. All she could tell me was “they’re very hard to get”. That was it. S did the whole thing on his own. Our school doesn’t even send out transcripts. The kids/parents are responsible.<br>
The vast majority (including my kids) who chose to attend a four yr. sch. head for one of our state u’s or one of the small privates nearby. A large number go to the CC. So I guess the GC’s figure that’s all they need to be familiar with.
I think they have one meeting for parents of juniors to talk about FA.</p>

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<p>That still does not change the fact that the wealthy kid is at a distinct advantage. My opportunities were extremely limited because of money and support(free lunch kid). Imagine kids whose parents only speak their native language and are only making minimum wage. The children should not suffer because of the situation they are born into. </p>

<p>I believe the education system needs to serve all equally, that just is not the case.</p>

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<p>Why do so many parents not know how to fix their own cars? Or their own computers? Or their own houses? Why did so many lose huge amounts of money on their homes? In their stock and mutual fund portfolios? Why do so many take out huge loans to go into areas where it will take a long time to pay off those loans? Why do so many know so little about math, biology, chemistry, physics, literature, history, finance, economics, accounting, drugs, ecology?</p>

<p>There are lots of areas of our lives that are very important to running a family and it can be very hard to know about all of these areas much less become an expert at them. I knew very little about the admissions procedures and available financial resources for college before coming to these forums. I did know a lot about trading markets though and saved up enough so that my lack of the college financial stuff didn’t matter.</p>

<p>If you already know it, great. But people are quite busy in other areas of their lives and may not have the cycles to put into college research.</p>

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<p>Is it really that parents are completely clueless or is it simply that they are not as plugged in as the typical CC poster? On the one hand we tell the students that people can get a good education at the local state u, but here it seems we’re ready to crucify parents for not having a plan in place by middle school. The fact is, while some kids really do benefit from the opportunity that a college outside of the normal field of vision would give them, it does seem that a majority of the planning is to maximize financial/merit aid and/or prestige. I do feel bad though for the kids who get convinced that they are a shoe in for the tippy top schools though simply because they are a superstar at the local high school.
But generally, I think it’s wrong to imply that parents are failing their kids because they don’t place the same emphasis on the process as you (general) do. I admit that I’m much more involved than I would have been had I not discovered CC. But I can’t believe that his future would be any less bright had I just assumed he’d attend the local college. Heck, he may end up there anyway…lol.
The process can be as simple or as involved as one choses to make it. But it really is a choice.</p>

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<p>Because they do not care to expend the time and energy to do very simple research. How difficult is it to find CC, for instance? I found it simply by using a search engine for a topic and CC came up. Even when I tell others about CC, they don’t take the time to navigate the simple page. If you care deeply about anything, you will expend tremendous energy to find what you are looking for. Again, parents are lazy in this arena. It really is as simple as that.</p>