<p>Getting kind of silly, Mr. Moderators . . . </p>
<p>DeepThroat</p>
<p>I agree! We get past the usual "what are my chances" and now we are not permitted to see some answers that might actually be useful . . .</p>
<p>DT, I don't agree. Terms of Service for the site specifically prohibit personal attacks...the last couple of threads have gotten quite personal.</p>
<p>I don't think there's any issue with people expressing unhappiness with USNA - it's the flame wars against other posters that have different perspectives that seem pretty low-value-added.</p>
<p>This is getting way out of hand...forget posting on the boards, email me the questions. This is ridiculous and I do apologize to all of the moderators, candidates, parents, and whoever else views these posts. The opinions are turning into personal bashing and I don't stand for that. I will not answer another post relating to the past topics. </p>
<p>My email, again: <a href="mailto:jadler989901@aol.com">jadler989901@aol.com</a></p>
<p>Kate,</p>
<p>You're part of the problem! You're violating the TOS simply by posting to this thread!</p>
<p>"Moderation. Out of respect for both moderators and policies, discussion of moderator actions and forum policies is welcomed via e-mail; these issues are off-topic for the forums."</p>
<p>You're a bad, bad person.</p>
<p>DeepThroat</p>
<p>PS--If people are making personal attacks, they should be warned, and then banned!! No need to stifle what is otherwise useful discussion. Whoops! There I go violating the TOS again!</p>
<p>Well the TOS is overly anal. Whatever, most people seem to get along fine with it, but it does restrict discussion to... "I feel so sorry for your poor son/daughter who was rejected..." and "how many pushups should you be able to do before Plebe summer..." Some people are also clearly overly sensitive and obsessed with maintaining decorum. </p>
<p>But since the other thread was moved...or whatever...it didn't say a whole lot...but here's the Cold Hard Truth from me</p>
<p>As soon as prospective students realize that the naval academy is no better route to becoming an officer as any other, the easier it will be for them to come to grips with its flaws once they get here. Plebes are indoctrinated in the 'ways of the military' by a group of people who have no idea what the actual military is like. I'm only playing solider here too, but let me tell what is fairly obvious: recruits are indoctrinated for 2-3 months and then life goes on. They're actually given a purpose. They have a job. The whole point of boot camp is ostensibly to break someone down so you can remold them to fit what the military needs. Unfortunately, the naval academy's philosophy seems to be 'well if breaking people down for 2 months seems to work, let's just **** on them for an entire year'. But what you get is not some linear relationship between bull **** and future leadership ability but a regression from malleable youth to apathetic and cynical individual fed up with the entire system. </p>
<p>Plebes really have no purpose here. Honestly. The higher ups will blather on that this year is to learn, but it's not true. They see nothing wrong with defining our 'job' as 'doing what you're told'. Right after Plebe Summer you're so brainwashed **** like that actually makes sense. But really, who takes a job that consists entirely of 'doing what you're told' ? When your job description is merely a long list of restrictions and prohibitions where's the motivation to do anything? It's kindergarten for adults. We're herded around like sheep for the amusement of ...our peers? Some girl told me a story where all the plebes had to do a uniform race and come out wearing chem goggles, bathings suits, and towels as capes. At first, it's kind of funny and then you realize that the people doing this are adults, some are prior enlisted, they've been in war, and yet we're running around like trained circus monkeys so we can give our second class and firsties a laugh. You can look at it from two different perspectives, and from one it's sort of ridiculous. </p>
<p>And one level you can't even blame the upperclass. Even as a Plebe I think to when I'll be in their position and can make my Plebes do retarded things and laugh with all my buddies about it. And that's where you come to this frankenstein melding of university and military that looks kind of nice, but really you're like what the hell is happening...</p>
<p>A note to adler: Dude, chill out. You're completely spazzing.</p>
<p>"As soon as prospective students realize that the naval academy is no better route to becoming an officer as any other"</p>
<p>Rather than point out all the reasons why you couldn't possibly make an informed judgment on this point, I'll just tell you that you're wrong. </p>
<p>The USNA mids are vastly superior than their ROTC counterparts. You will see this firsthand when you meet them during your summer cruises. Whether you realize it or not, amidst all the BS, you guys really are learning some useful skills. Your ROTC buddies are chilling out 6 of 7 days a week. You guys are learning SOMETHING about leadership (though it might be what NOT to do), and you will see that you ROTC buddies aren't getting very much of this. Finally, you guys are just a little bit smarter and a little more physically fit than the ROTC guys. After all, there are reasons why they aren't at the academy. Trust me on this one . . . </p>
<p>DeepThroat</p>
<p>FWIW, I seem to be one of the people "attacked" (if that's what you want to call it...well at least flamed) and I would rather the thread be open than closed. People have the ability to scroll on by if they see a post they don't agree with, find insulting etc. The overall site has been far more helpful than a few negative posts. In life people will disagree with you. So what? Having 4 children, you build up a pretty thick skin and don't get too flustered by things such as this. Hopefully the "new" Plebe summer/Plebe year thread can be constructive with helpful hints and stories of how the year goes (both the good and the bad).
Regards,
NAPS05mom</p>
<p>If you don't like your experience at the Academy, then leave. However, I don't doubt that you will find the same frustrations at most Universities. The difference being that after completing all the silliness associated with rushing for a fraternity so that you will have a social life (which isn't much different that plebe year from what I'm hearing) or drinking yourself silly because you can, you won't be an Officer in the Navy with opportunities beyond most person's wildest imaginations. You will have MUCH debt (even with ROTC) when finished at the University and possibly no job verses NO debt and a career. Step back and look at the big picture. Any service Academy is an honor. If you think it needs to change, then be the Leader that they believe you are and start the process by not passing on the practices when you become a 2/c or 1/c.</p>
<p>"Rather than point out all the reasons why you couldn't possibly make an informed judgment on this point..."</p>
<p>Alright, but look at it like this...we all end up in the same place. Of course better people come here, so better people come out. It doesn't mean the naval academy had everything to do with that. And while USNA mids may be vastly superior to their ROTC counterparts are USNA officers vastly superior to ROTC officers just because they're from the academy? I don't think any officer will tell you that. </p>
<p>And before you dismiss my statement as completely uninformed, I don't think in a vacuum. Of course I've talked to other people about this, some with wildly different backgrounds than my own.</p>
<p>"If you don't like your experience at the Academy, then leave."</p>
<p>Give me a break. Don't adopt some snobbish mentality that because I criticize something you revere, I'm obviously the one with the problem. I could go on and on about the things that are good and worthwhile about this place, but everyone else does that so what is so completely abhorred about playing devil's advocate? You have an overwhelmingly positive and high regard for the naval academy on this message board, and someone makes five posts enumerating problems...how awful.</p>
<p>You don't need to tell me to look at the big picture. I have. Would I still be here otherwise?</p>
<p>"are USNA officers vastly superior to ROTC officers just because they're from the academy?" </p>
<p>It's a hard question to answer in any context. Is Tiger Woods the world's best golfer because of his innate natural ability, or is it because he has worked with some of the best swing coaches in the world from such a young age? You can't really parse out the direct cause, and maybe there isn't one. He might have been great with no coaching, but because of the coaching he received, he is the best. Same case with the mids. I swear. They come out of USNA just a little bit better than if they had gone somewhere else. As lame as some (most?) of your training seems, and as dysfunctional as the midshipmen chain of command seems, I really believe that it produces a great product. Plus, no matter how sucky things get out in the fleet, you will always be able to think of something suckier that you experienced as USNA. </p>
<p>"I don't think any officer will tell you that."</p>
<p>Well, it's my view for sure. So there's one. And I know several of my buddies feel the same way . . . so I can guarantee you about seven. :)</p>
<p>DeepThroat</p>
<p>"And before you dismiss my statement as completely uninformed, I don't think in a vacuum. Of course I've talked to other people about this, some with wildly different backgrounds than my own."</p>
<p>Oh, and what I meant was that you are hardly in a position to talk about quality of grads/why grads are of a particular quality, since you are only a mid, and you don't have any experience dealing with officers in general.</p>
<p>DeepThroat</p>
<p>"Oh, and what I meant was that you are hardly in a position to talk about quality of grads/why grads are of a particular quality, since you are only a mid, and you don't have any experience dealing with officers in general."</p>
<p>I really hope that you're a grad, not some high schooler with big aspirations.</p>
<p>
I really hope that you're a grad, not some high schooler with big aspirations.
If you have read his other posts, he has already said he is a grad.</p>
<p>So, in the big picture, you intend to stay?
That's actually encouraging . . . in the face of an ability to construct withering criticism, you still see value in staying. </p>
<p>This probably says more about you and the Academy [both in a positive light] than you might imagine. If you can maintain a healthy scepticism about your environment, while still being able to stay in that environment, i.e. not failing, then you should be able to thrive. [If the government does not, eventually and almost inevitably, suck the life and enthusiasm out of your young body.]</p>
<p>A constant [valid] criticism of this thread is that there are more parents than applicants/mids participating. Thank you for participating.</p>
<p>"A constant [valid] criticism of this thread is that there are more parents than applicants/mids participating. Thank you for participating."</p>
<p>While I appreciate the opinions of current and past Mids, I have also found useful information and support from the parents. In fact, if it weren't for a parent in Long Island, my daughter wouldn't be going to USNA next year. She provided a wealth of information to me when my daughter was not offered an appointment and was instrumental in her appeal being successful. So, parents do have years of experience and a different slant sometimes that can be just as useful on these message boards.
NAPS05mom</p>