<p>as doctors and people in business? I've read that Lawyers mostly make in the 150 000 range while Doctors usually make around $300 000 and that Investment Bankers average a million dollars a year in salary after 10 years. Why is this true considering Law school takes up about the same time as business and Medical school, what are dream jobs for Lawyers (ie Investment banking, private equity for business people) ?</p>
<p>Business people create things. Doctors have monopolistic practices. Lawyers are generally transactional and thus only slice a little off the top of a pie that's already there.</p>
<p>Med school is a lot longer than law. They have to do 4 years of med school and 2 of residency.</p>
<p>145000 is entry level</p>
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<p>145000 is entry level</p>
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<p>That's entry level for the tiny percentage of lawyers who can get hired by a big firm in New York. The vast majority of law students can't hope to start at that kind of salary. (The vast majority of law students can't even start at $100K.) If you focus on the top 14, it's easy to forget that those jobs are completely out of reach for most kids at the other 170-odd law schools.</p>
<p>Hanna, that's definitely true, but it also important to point out with respect to the original post that very few people in investment banking ever make it to the point where they make a million dollars or more a year.</p>
<p>supply and demand</p>
<p>Median earnings of a lawyer in 2004 was 94k. Note, that's ALL lawyers, not just starting lawyers. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#earnings%5B/url%5D">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#earnings</a></p>
<p>Median salaries for various kinds of doctors are shown here.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings%5B/url%5D">http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings</a></p>
<p>
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that very few people in investment banking ever make it to the point where they make a million dollars or more a year.
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<p>Darn right. The vast majority of people will be weeded out before they make it to the point of really making the truly big bucks, either because they find out that just don't like the lifestyle, or they're not good enough to stay. In most jobs, you can just be an 'average' worker and just stay at the same level for years, possibly decades, and if you're very good, you will be promoted to the next level. Ibanking is not like that. Ibanking is an 'up-or-out' industry - you're either good enough to get promoted to the next level, or you're going to get fired. You can't just be 'average' and stay at the same career rung for years at a time. Most people aren't good enough to stick around for even 2 or 3 years, much less 10 years.</p>
<p>According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median annual wage for salaried surgeons is $177K; for anaesthesiologists, it's $174K; for OB-GYN's, it's $172K; for pediatricians, it's $139K; for general practitioners/family physicians, it's $140K; and for lawyers, it's $110.5K.</p>
<p>Investment bankers aren't listed there, probably because there aren't very many of them. I wouldn't equate "people in business" with investment bankers, though. </p>
<p>There are physicians, lawyers, and investment bankers who make more than $1 million a year; technically, though, most of their compensation is non-salary compensation, such as bonuses, or partnership profit distributions. Simularly, for top corporate executives, the lion's share of compensation comes from stock options. For example, the right to buy 100,000 share of stock any time in the next ten years for the price it's at today. It the stock goes up ten dollars a share, the options are worth a million dollars. If the stock price goes down and stays down, the options are worthless.</p>
<p>Company founders keep some percentage of the shares in the corporations they found. Tha's how Bill Gates got to be the richest man on the planet. I remember reading that his annual salary was $1 million, with no annual bonus, and no stock options. His real wealth came from owning 19% of Microsoft.</p>
<p>Achieving great wealth requires one to take risks.</p>
<p>By the way, surveys have consistently shown that after one has achieved a fairly modest level of financial success ($50K or so per year, if memory serves), there is little correlation between how much money one makes, and happiness.</p>
<p>The income of most lawyers depends significantly on the number of hours worked. There are only so many hours in the day that a person can work. The income of business owners or business executives usually depends on their value to the organization and the overall profitability of the business. You can be an average business executive but if the company is successful, you can be higly paid through salary, bonuses, and stock options.</p>
<p>High paid lawyers are typically not generating their income just off billable hours. Law firms are structured where the partners make money off of everyone below them In short, the associate generates more money than he/she is paid and this is revenue for the partners. </p>
<p>When you look at compensation based on hours worked, the average salaries for doctors is not that high. THe average physician works 65 hours per week not including on-call time. It is very possible that physician income will drop in the coming years as it is becoming a highly regulated field by necessity.</p>
<p>there is no way that data is correct</p>
<p>first of all, in my area, anesthesiologists are cracking prob around 400-500 K, my father is a doctor, and he has many friends and colleagues who are doctors/surgeons</p>
<p>OB-GYN can make around 500 K as well</p>
<p>BBall87,</p>
<p>Are those numbers for gross income or net income? Also, if you live in a big city, average income nationwide will decrease when you factor in the income of small-town practitioners who earn less.</p>
<p>What Doctors make that much??? I know like 20 doctors and no one makes 400K????</p>
<p>I had dinner with a friend who's a plastic surgeon last night. I don't know how much he makes. He did mention, however, that it took nine years of additional residency and post-docs after medical school to become a board-certified plastic surgeon. (Plastic surgeons train as general surgeons first before specializing further in plastic surgery.)</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics are based on salary only. Residents are licensed physicians receiving a salary (a low salary at that part of their careers, but a reportable salary nevertheless). Also, when you look at a median salary, by definition half of the people in that profession make more than the median.</p>
<p>It's true that partners in law firms are also making a profit based on billings generated by associates. With the exception of a few firms in a few large cities, the ratio of associates to partners in big firms is not that high. 1:1 is fairly common in the market I'm most familiar with (San Francisco).</p>
<p>There are often wide variations in reported income for physicians. Part of this has to do with what income physicians are reporting. Some are listing income before expenses, and overhead is often 50% of a physicians gross income. Stats that come off individual income tax returns are the most accurate. Medical Economics is an often cited source for reliable physician income data.</p>
<p>Law has a relatively high average salary and and even wider standard deviation. Once factoring the opportunity costs of medical school, law often seems the better decision.</p>
<p>It helps if you can go to a top law school. In medicine, as long as you eventually become board certified, it makes no difference where you went to school.</p>
<p>Not much to add to Hanna's accurate comments. There are plenty of lawyers who earn peanuts, relatively. Most of these are folks who are at Legal Aid offices or community-based NPOs. Also, attorneys don't get rich by working for state, county and local government. What they do get if they work for government is regular (40) work hours, weekends and holidays off (usually), etc. As has been said, it's the partners at private firms who rake in the dough from the rainmaking associates.</p>
<p>As a general rule, you don't get something for nothing. High paying jobs often demand a lot in terms of personal sacrifice - either because you work long hours or because your job is incredibly stressful or because you are on call, for example.</p>