I’ve encouraged my D to take AP and advanced classes at her high school whenever possible as I’d rather her get a B in the harder class rather than skate by with an A in the regular class. It’s a decision I’m regretting, I think. Schools like UMN use her unweighted GPA coursework seems to be moved to the ‘holistic’ review portion of the application decision. Since greatest emphasis is placed on test scores and GPA, I’m afraid it may have backfired on her as she is now deferred. Am I incorrect and feeling as if the advantage is given to a kid with higher GPA and easier course load? It’s very frustrating.
I think there is definitely a strategy related to this. Schools like Minnesota, UW-Madison, etc seem to try hard to get a “normalized” view of all applicants. They exclude AP class weighting and the unweighted GPA and then ACT score are the top two things (in that order) that definitely seem to drive their final decisions. With that being said, the strategy part that seems to work is sprinkling in a handful of AP courses throughout high school to show a student is not afraid of pushing themselves and taking risk. Hope your daughter gets good news in the coming weeks.
Because the honors and AP/pseo classes are expected for admissions. However a student should only choose classes where s/he is reasonably certain of getting a B. The universities recalculate GPA and do count rigor in comparing applicants, especially from the same school. Finally, students with a rigorous coursework are much more likely to succeed in college (getting in is just one part… 
)
The skill set and accomplishments of your D challenging herself are going to be what makes her successful in college and life. Eventually the classes get challenging for everyone. My D took in stride flunking her first test in college. She’d had plenty of practice digging herself out of holes and flunking tests in high school. So while the straight "A’’ kids had to deal with the shell shock of their first F and were at a loss of what to do next (drop the class?/change majors?); she knew she could master the material eventually (what didn’t I do well?/how can I do it better?).
I was the one that wanted her to take it easy. But she was right, the harder road has gotten her much further than playing it safe.
This is exactly what has been the hardest part of college application process for my d. She is an IB diploma candidate which means every core class (6-7 classes per year) she has taken in high school has been honors, AP, or IB. Her high school requires IB diploma candidates to take Honors or AP freshman and sophomore year and then all IB junior senior years. Her sophomore and junior year she took 9 classes (zero hour + no lunch).to have the option of some elective classes. All while being on varsity swimming, an officer of her schools theater department, and participating in multiple plays and musicals. Her unweighted GPA is 3.2 but weighted is 4.2 or maybe higher now. She was denied by U of W and deferred from UMN. She is so frustrated and wondering why she tried so hard in high school now. I’m trying to convince her she is not her GPA and that the education she has received to date is beyond great and even if her top college choices don’t recognize that it doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth it. I do think she’ll be better off in college and life though for taking those classes.
@HopingMN your daughter puts my daughter to shame. My D has met the requirements of her high school’s honors diploma but it’s nowhere as rigorous as your daughter’s. I so wish more emphasis was placed on coursework. I feel your frustration.
@hopingMN : UNebraska gives lots of credit for IB. “holistic” colleges also look at such profiles very carefully (look at Beloit, Gustavus Adolphus, Drake, Butler… I think they’re still accepting applications). UMN Morris also does.
I have been torn when it comes to this situation because I also work in high schools. The weighted grades becomes questionable because any college course or honors course is weighted. That means you can take an honors or CEP class in your high school and elevate your GPA while another may take a class with less rigor at a community college (not saying all CC have less rigor, just an example), and another takes a PSEO course at the University of Minnesota. The number of courses that are offered by individual high schools may offer a student more ability to elevate their GPA as regular electives such as band, choir, or art, may not be weighted and actually lower your GPA. It is a balancing act to compare not only students but high schools. By comparing the unweighted GPA along with the ACT score, it allows admissions to look at the rigor the student had in their classes in high school but puts everyone on one scale. The other issue is that some states use a 5 point, 12 point and 22 point scale.
As I said, this is a hard subject and I could just as readily argue for weighted grades but it has definitely made me think about what is best when I look at students on this page that were accepted and deferred. I believe that first generation college also plays into admission as well as the leadership roles and variety of involvement in the school and community. This has been my view of this system.
@livviegracesmom & @HopingMN For the more selective universities they expect to see the highest gpa with the most rigor the individual student can handle. And if a high school offers honors and AP courses the student must take as many of them as they can, doing somewhat of a fine balancing act by taking just enough honors /AP without those courses lowering the overall gpa. They would rather select the A student who took only half of all courses in honors and approx 5 AP courses throughout high school than a student who has a B average with all honors courses and 9 or 10 AP courses. So you are correct that a student will be at a disadvantage Admissons-wise if he or she has a lower gpa than another student who took an easier (but still rigorous) course-load consisting of a combo of honors and AP courses. The latter student --because of the higher gpa–will be eligible for more merit aid and other scholarships that require a higher Gpa.
As others have mentioned, getting in to college is just step one. The rigor required in your Ds coursework will well prepare her for the difficulties of a challenging college curriculum. That alone will make her college transition smoother sailing as she will be less likely to wig out over the academic pieces of the puzzle.
Pushing yourself ultimately is a good thing.
Hopefully this has already been answered upthread: colleges use UW because - ta da da da: They do their own weighting. Weighting methodologies vary greatly across schools and districts, making weighted GPA’s relatively uncomparable (some schools do no weighting whatsoever). Therefore, schools will Unweight everything, then apply the relevant weights to courses they deem the most important.
Weighting also affects your class rank. If you are one of 200 kids all with straight A’s, but some of you take no AP/honors, some of you take a couple, some take several, some take half, and so forth all the way up to the kid who’s taking 100% of courses via AP, obviously that ranking should account for those differences.
Why do you think they don’t read the transcripts? Just because they don’t use the weighting stategy of your local high school doesn’t mean they don’t care about course choice. I don’t think it is a stretch to think my kid might not have gotten in to UMN and a host of other good schools if it weren’t for all the STEM APs.
Makes you wonder why weighting HS GPA’s is even a thing, if University admissions weight their own way after seeing the HS transcript.
Way back when, my high school didn’t weight the ‘honors’ or advanced classes. Honors really just meant you were in the class that moved faster, like our Honors Geometry class finished two extra chapters in the same book the ‘regular’ classes were using. No AP, nothing extra except one or two student took classes at the college if our high school ran out of math or science classes.
Students went to MIT and Harvard and Middlebury from out school. Even in this day, they only offer about 6-8 AP classes. If students want to take a college class, there is a college within walking distance of the high school.
Lots of high schools don’t weight and don’t rank. They intentionally don’t want students worrying about their ranking or burying themselves academically. Some schools intentionally offer fewer APs or limit the number students can take. The goal is interested and interesting students, not students who were so buried academically that they barely have time to sleep or really dig into EC experiences outside the classroom.
It’s tough that some IB programs require kids to take a full IB courseload every semester from junior year onwards. I agree that the extreme rigor helps in the long run. However, it might require a lot of disproportionate sacrifice in the short term.
“Makes you wonder why weighting HS GPA’s is even a thing, if University admissions weight their own way after seeing the HS transcript.”
HS might have their own reasons - say, they have a GPA min. for NHS or honor roll. It’s reasonable to think that getting a slightly lower grade in a tougher version of the subject should weigh the same as a higher grade in the easier version. It’s a way of accounting for difficulty.
“Why do you think they don’t read the transcripts? Just because they don’t use the weighting stategy of your local high school doesn’t mean they don’t care about course choice.”
Bingo. Course choice is a primary factor for admission at UMN, along with GPA/rank and test scores. For CSE/CBS/CSOM they require one year min. of Bio, Chem, and Physics.
OP’s frustration is due to the focus on AP, so it’s probably a good time to point out that not AP’s are alike. The “solids” of History, English, Math, Science (Physics, Chem, Bio), and FL should be done at the most challenging level available w/o overwhelming the student. This sometimes means making smart decisions about strengths and weaknesses and how to allocate your study time; however, the truth is that pretty much everyone accepted to the more selective colleges at UMN is going to be doing AP or honors in most if not all of these subjects. When it comes to other AP such as Psych, Econ, Environmental Science, CS, and so forth, those won’t be given as much weight since they are considered more like elective courses. So just keep that in mind when you are thinking “AP” - It’s fine to take AP electives, but make sure you aren’t substituting those for AP solids.
DS has insisted on taking EVERY possible AP/Honors course all 4 years including his final semester. The result is an unweighted GPA of 3.85, including two C’s his junior year. One college that deferred him even asked for a written ‘explanation’ for those two grades as they reconsider him. So I understand your frustration. In suggesting my son ease up Senior year (to avoid another C or several B’s) he said he would be bored if he didn’t challenge himself. I think his attitude will pay off in the long run. He was rejected by one elite so far (ED), and is waiting on 3 other elites (RD). His 32 ACT, grades and EC’s are still impressive, but so are thousands of other applicants. The good news is he is accepted at several top regional semi-selective schools and will likely do very well at one of them. I believe there are enough quality schools out there that see past these raw numbers. It just may not be the favorite school on your list. Cast a wide net and see what matches.
feel your pain @livviegracesmom
Be assured you should not feel guilty. She has learned well from you and she will succeed wherever she goes.
Unfortunately for parents theres no rhyme or reason to this process
So if a student has
Honors Bio - AP Bio
Honors Physics - AP Physics 2
Honors Chem - (?)
And AP Chem is super hard at your HS with half the class getting C’s to show for their super hard work (taking time away from other classes), would you take for the (?): This is for a kid strong in Math and Science (A- in all the other Honors/AP classes, though Honors Chem currently between B+/A-. Taking a step lower classes in other subjects. College goals are state flagships or selective LACs (not Engineering; but maybe Math major). Is it better to show perserverance with AP Chem to have both levels in all 3 sciences; or quit while ahead at Honors Chem?
- AP Chem (best case B; risk of C)
- AP Environmental Science
- AP Statistics (and no more science)
Thanks for any input on this.