<p>S13 has decided to attend a very nice school in DC where he can excel, get the opportunities/internships that he craves & graduate with very little debt so he can go onto grad school. Did he get accepted to higher (much) ranked schools, yes, but didn’t want the debt & didn’t want to put us in a harder financial place. The merit aid this school has given him is almost twice the need based aid & if he becomes an RA then we will pay almost nothing as room & board will then be covered. </p>
<p>S13 would not do well in a large school & we are very happy this could all be worked out where not have classes with 50+ students, like many of the less expensive school, & he could attend in DC - which is exactly where he wanted to be.</p>
<p>And most of the time, it still doesn’t. Even the highest COA state school isn’t anywhere close to that for in-state students. And in fact, many private schools aren’t even that high. Not saying it isn’t a lot of money. It is, but there’s no reason for anybody to shell out 250K.</p>
<p>Ordinarylives, some of the biggest shocks to me has been the increases in cost at state schools. Now I happen to live in a state where the tuition has stayed relatively low, and there are a lot of state options, But I’ve seen some increases in some states that have made my eyes pop. Illinois, PA, VA even. And OOS premiums are now waaay up there. 15 years ago, one could go to OOS publics and do quite well even with that surcharge. Now schools like the UCs, UMich, UVa are close to the private schools costs in what the charge OOS kids. Virginia back then was down right inexpensive for instaters. I remember talking with a parent who had older kids who was paying less , full freight for his kids to go to Virginia Tech(instate) than what the tuition was at some of our local Catholic high schools. Well, no more.</p>
<p>Oh, I know they’re high. No question. ANd they didn’t used to be, but even now with some state schools currently running close to 30K a year for in-state kids, the total cost isn’t going to be 250K for 4 years. My d’s at a private school, and even full pay, I would not come close to that cool quarter mil figure for four years, including summer school. </p>
<p>I was trying to point out that while expensive, higher ed is not uniformly priced at over 60 grand a year. Throwing that figure around sensationalizes the argument a bit. There are more schools charging less than there are charging that much. Ya know, the kind we suggest here on the fin aid forum. ;)</p>
<p>I always get made to feel like a slumlord when these types of discussions come up. I would always start with competitive merit awards, as I believe most students who can get one of the automatics can get a similar award at a more suitable school through competitive merit. So that makes the automatics mostly useful as safeties if the student can find one that fits OK.</p>
<p>That’s how it worked for my oldest, anyway. Her best automatic option was Fordham, which is a good school but maybe not the best fit for her, whereas her competitive scholarship offers from 2 small LACs were the most attractive.</p>
<p>My question, regarding the numbers above, is: Do you have threshold levels that are acceptable for those stats?</p>
<p>Middle 50% of incomes is 50-125,000. In most cases, no full need school will require a family with that income to pay the full price, and hopefully not even a majority of the price. Though maybe I’m optimistic.</p>
<p>We’ve lived a modest life, and have had to pay our own way for things w/o help from our own parents</p>
<p>Well um- duh. Isnt part of family planning deciding how large of a family you can afford without financial help from others?
We’ve stayed in our starter house ( 2bed/1bath & had our kids 8 years apart to keep expenses as low as we can so that we can continue to live in an expensive area- everyone claims that they are über budget conscious- but how many are crazy enough about it to raise two teen girls in a house with one bathroom?)
*
Would any parent or child with a 4.0/31 find value at any of those institutions, even with a free ride?*</p>
<p>This has been answered already but yes.
I know a great many kids whose family incomes were full pay at schools that do not offer any merit aid. Some decided to attend anyway. Some decided to take merit aid at much lesser known schools and save their parents financial help for graduate school</p>
<p>Poster #8 is new to CC. She has a senior this year and didn’t realize that the state school that her D was accepted at does not give merit scholarships. Her D is a val., 4.0 student with a 31 ACT so she is a very good student and if the poster had been familiar with CC before this point, I am sure she would have encouraged her child to apply to those schools that do automatically or competitively offer scholarships. I am sorry she found CC too late in the process for her D, however all the advice you all are giving will help her with her other children in the future. I am fortunate to have found CC when my oldest was a possible NMF otherwise I might have been “shocked” too.</p>
<p>A lot of people shocked. Many friends we’ve known for some years, with younger kids than ours are finding out that some of those merit awards are now getting harder to get, and state school costs have sky rocketed. It used to be that it was pretty reasonable to expect a student like #8 would be accepted to Pitt’s Honor College and get a full tuition maybe even full ride award. There were some auto parameters, and I knew a lot of kids who enjoyed those benefits. No more. You have to apply to get into the Honors College and the number of those generous rewards has been drastically cut. If BobWallace had put together a list of auto awards 15 years ago, it would have had a lot more colleges on it. Schools are really backing away from making them auto awards based on stats now, and state the numbers needed to be considered for the awards, a whole other story. So, it has gotten tighter. I remember my friend sending her two oldest UI-UCh for what was very affordable Now it’s over $30K to go there, and getting accepted is not easy. A lot of the VA and GA schools, the better known ones are now difficult to gain admittance as more kids are staying instate. Virginia colleges used to be such a deal too.</p>
<p>So even with the stats, if a student want to go to a school with the recognition, ratings and reputation up there, it’s difficult getting a lot of merit money, or even any these days.</p>
<p>I think that we also have to admit that the financial aid process isn’t perfect. The OP asked about colleges that meet full need-- but the process only takes into account what the family earned one year. There are families who may have had a wonderful year during that base year, but had to use the money to get out of debt from a number of bad years. There are situations which are dealt with imperfectly in the financial aid system: divorce, relatives who may need to be supported (like elderly/ handicapped parents in a different country) that are not counted in the household, businesses which a school may over-value or situations with trusts. A lot of the meet-full-need schools will take the time to consider specific situations with parents but the situation may still be unworkable.</p>
<p>No system is perfect and the financial aid application is filled with niches where one can get caught. The one year snapshot can be very misleading, I agree and schools are not always so generous when a wage earner loses his job. If a parent refuses to pay, then the kid is stuck if the family is deemed able.</p>
<p>Lots of good info here. Thanks to everyone who contributes! Many lessons learned for us, and helpful for child #2 & #3.</p>
<p>@emeraldkity4: In regard to your “duh” comment, I didn’t think I came across as looking for “kudos” that we haven’t looked to our parents. I only mentioned that we’ve done everything on our own because in another thread grandparents were suggested as a source of filling the financial gap. Also, sometimes there’s a misconception that families in the middle are blowing their $$. I just wanted to offer an example that there are some of us who try to go about things somewhat conscientiously, but still come up short. Other posters in this thread have done a better job at communicating the fact that the middle class can have good intentions but life can put the squeeze on things.</p>
<p>BobWallace, your scholarship threads are of incalculable value. And heartfelt thanks to all the other knowledgeable posters on CC, like cptofthehouse, from whom I’ve learned so much. We were just floundering around when we realized less than a year ago that our state school was not going to be an ideal option for D. Every other feasible option was likely to cost a lot more than we had planned for, unless we could find schools at which we might get merit to reduce cost. I don’t know where we’d be now if I hadn’t stumbled on CC. What a year it’s been.</p>
<p>PAGRok…“Middle 50% of incomes is 50-125,000. In most cases, no full need school will require a family with that income to pay the full price, and hopefully not even a majority of the price. Though maybe I’m optimistic.”</p>
<p>Our particular situation indicates you are optimistic…</p>
<p>Pagrok
Median income is $51,404.
Thats about what our income was when our oldest started college at a school that met full need. We still were expected to pay 1/4 of before tax income which wasnt possible without refinancing our house.</p>
<p>The problem with median household income is that it is for ALL households - from young singles, just starting out, to retired couples, living off their pensions. I would love to know the median income of “families” with 2 or 3 children. I did find a chard showing median income based on household size, listed by state for 2009, and the lowest was just under $56,000 in Mississipi for a family of 4 - and ranged as high as $100,000 in 4 states, including my own. i comparing these charts, I would guess median income for a family of 4 is in the range of $75-85,000, and Pagrok’s estimate of middle 50% might not be so far off.</p>
<p>That said, I agree with collegeparents… optimistic, in hoping that full need schools won’t expect them to pay the majority of costs. We are just below median for a family of 5 in our state, and in the middle of Pagrok’s range. The only reason we won’t be paying more than 50% of the cost at D’s full-need school, is due to a preferential FA package including merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Ctscoutmom, I 've said the same. I think all familes with college aged kid should be in their own category because really comparing someone in that situation is a whole other story than empty nesters on social security, Medicare, paid off homes, or those starting out. And yes, geographics are an issue too, and maybe goverment COL charts should be used to adjust. Still won’t catch all of the differential but make up for some of it. Military, for instance, do get housing differentials recognized, depending on the housing availability and costs.</p>
<p>I guess its that full-need schools packages range greatly. If only all of these schools adopted Harvard’s 10% max for incomes up to 150,000. I’m sure a good amount of schools could do it if they allocated more funds. I know at my school students are pushing for more FA and less loans though my school gives good aid within the full need category.</p>
