Why can't engineering be more relaxed?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>" At least we have a completely unbiased and substantiated source for this tidbit of information."</p>

<p>I doubt that CMU's admission committee would tell us of their secrets. Plus, I said "supposedly". Since they were talking about college GPA inflation/deflation and what GPA's are worth, it is a sweet interlude. </p>

<p>But yes, the source is biased... but you're absolutely right - in an engineering forum I should make sure not to mention HMC, even if it fits the bill for discussion. 8-P</p>

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<p>rocketDA is this public information? Where is there a list that I can find with these numbers? Is there anything similar out there.</p>

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<p>I wish that there was a source. This is only from word of mouth... but one of my profs (who had some type of tie with CMU IT admissions about 6-7 years ago) said that CMU used Q factors for Caltech and HMC. If they did, who knows whether the Q factor is still used. </p>

<p>I'm looking for some hard evidence of the Q factor online, but I don't see anything. I'd be interested in whatever gets turned up.</p>

164

<p>
[quote]
This was the reality in two areas of the country where I worked. Engineering hiring is highly regional, and the best regional engineering schools were highly overrepresented in company management hierarchy, and in recruitment efforts.</p>

<p>These firms are able to find state college grads that are "plenty good enough" for their purposes. That's who they hire, mostly, and that's who goes on to run their companies.</p>

<p>If you want to eventually work for an engineering company in one of these regions, frankly I see no reason to look beyond the most regionally respected state u. Even the second or third most repected state u will have significantly more representation there than the ivies, MIT, etc. At least that was the case where I worked.

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<p>Sure, I agree that if that's all you want, and you're not really interested in more, then I have always agreed that you can do just fine at a regional school. Heck, this holds for almost any job. If all you want to do is stay and work in your home region, you can just go to your local state school rather than go to Harvard. And if you don't have strong work ambitions to get a top career, then you can just slide by, barely passing all your classes. You don't really need to try to get A's. So it all comes down to what you want. </p>

<p>However, what I am saying is that we should appreciate the fact that some people work harder and learn the material better than others. That doesn't make them 'elitist', that just makes them hard-working students. People get into schools like MIT and Caltech by working hard in high school. Those who then graduate from those schools worked very hard to survive the curriculum. These guys who are willing to put in those kinds of hours deserve their success. </p>

<p>I went to a state school that was not at the level of MIT or Caltech. I saw people who didn't really want to work hard. And, lo and behold, they ended up with mediocre jobs. In my opinion, that's EXACTLY the way it ought to be. You don't work hard, you don't deserve to get a great job. I'm sure at Louisiana Tech, this dichotomy exists. Some Louisiana Tech students will study very hard and get top grades, and others will study less hard and get not-so-good grades. And I'm sure that the top guys will have a better pick of jobs than the guys who are not at the top. </p>

<p>Now, of course, there are some people who work hard and end up with mediocre jobs, and there are people who don't work hard and nevertheless end up with great jobs. Obviously we don't have a perfectly meritocratic system, although I think we should. </p>

<p>But at least we should acknowledge the general truism that hard work will tend to get you places, and not working hard will slow your career. It's like smoking. Some people who smoke will nevertheless live to be over 90, and some people who don't smoke will die young, but in general, smoking is unhealthy.</p>

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<p>sakky what school do you or did you go to or will graduate from or did graduate from.</p>

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<p>Vinny, I don't talk about that stuff publicly. Why do you want to know anyway?</p>

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<p>****, you seem to talk alot about yourself, then tell us what makes you the expert,what makes you know the classes are harder. you tell me to take a class at cal tech, have you, do you know?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I see that the guy from cal tech if he want to Louisiana tech he would most likely still have a 1.99. I dont see a 1.99 cal tech gpa as a 3.5 gpa st Louisiana tech, if thats what you guys think, I guess you guys do thogh.

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UB-Vinny77, since you seem to think Caltech is a walk in the park, care to try solving some first term frosh problem sets? These classes are required to be taken by everyone here.</p>

<p>Chem: <a href="http://midnight.caltech.edu/chem1a/Homework%20Sets.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://midnight.caltech.edu/chem1a/Homework%20Sets.htm&lt;/a>
Math: <a href="http://www.math.caltech.edu/classes/ma1a/index1.html#hw%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.math.caltech.edu/classes/ma1a/index1.html#hw&lt;/a>
Physics: <a href="http://www.its.caltech.edu/%7Etmu/ph1a/problems.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.its.caltech.edu/~tmu/ph1a/problems.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I would bet on the fact that those who are failing classes (not for lack of effort) at Caltech would cruise through any state school.</p>

<p>Edit:
For anyone who cares to give it a shot, some particularly fun problems are:
Chem: Set 4 #5, Set 8 #5
Math: Set 7 #1, Set 8 #4
Physics: QP3, FP5</p>

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<p>those problems don't look all to challenging, sorry but those problems are quite similar to what my school gives, though my school does give about 3x the amount of problems in a problem set though they are of that length.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
****, you seem to talk alot about yourself, then tell us what makes you the expert,what makes you know the classes are harder. you tell me to take a class at cal tech, have you, do you know?

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</p>

<p>I'll happily share my biography to you privately, and trust me, I know.</p>

<p>As far as the Caltech thing - the answer is simple. My brother graduated from there. I trust his word.</p>

171

<p>If you're trying to say some people at a no name louisiana school are smarter than some people at caltech, then ok, that's definitely possible.</p>

<p>But if you're trying to say that the average student at some no name school is the same as an average guy from Caltech, that's absolutely ridiculous.</p>

172

<p>
[quote]
those problems don't look all to challenging, sorry but those problems are quite similar to what my school gives, though my school does give about 3x the amount of problems in a problem set though they are of that length.

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Hey, I guess I'm wrong, then. You really are brilliant. Some of the TAs couldn't solve a few of those problems (Math in particular). I'll come ask Louisiana Tech students for help when I get stuck on my next set, m'kay?</p>

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<p>"Hey, I guess I'm wrong, then. You really are brilliant. Some of the TAs couldn't solve a few of those problems (Math in particular). I'll come ask Louisiana Tech students for help when I get stuck on my next set, m'kay?"</p>

<p>You could just come over here and ask your friends to the East. But, actually, I'll come to you since I work for your school. I'll be in Firestone's HVI basement tomorrow, Saturday and Sunday. Feel free to stop by and complain about your workload to me... but I won't care because I have (and still am) going through it.</p>

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<p>


rocketDA, you never do miss an opportunity to troll do you? If only there were quality research opportunities on your own campus you could avoid he commute...</p>

<p>Anyway, to add something substantive to the discussion, for what it's worth, sakky, I don't believe that people generally fail out Caltech because they weren't smart enough. Most of the people who fail out do so because of not working hard enough - for whatever, often understandable, reasons. In most majors, I'd strongly claim that anyone could get a 3.0 average should he or she be motivated to do so. In engineering, this might be a little lower (due to more classes, generally tougher grading schemes, etc.), but it's still well above 2.0. This is a direct result of strong admission standards - which of course you support. </p>

<p>If you believe that (which you don't, but hey, you've only seen the workload second hand right?), then it's obvious that the 2.0 limit is just there to keep people working at a high level. And hence, you know that any Caltech degree implies not only aptitude (which is confirmed upon admission), but also work ethic. The latter, of course, is much harder to gauge during undergrad admissions, and that's one of the reasons why colleges use grades in the first place.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Hey, I guess I'm wrong, then. You really are brilliant. Some of the TAs couldn't solve a few of those problems (Math in particular). I'll come ask Louisiana Tech students for help when I get stuck on my next set, m'kay?

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</p>

<p>No need to get angry about it, Durran. I checked out your p-sets, good stuff, but if you want to see some truly challenging math p-sets, check out Harvard.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you're trying to say some people at a no name louisiana school are smarter than some people at caltech, then ok, that's definitely possible.</p>

<p>But if you're trying to say that the average student at some no name school is the same as an average guy from Caltech, that's absolutely ridiculous.

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<p>I never meant that the average student at no-name schools is on the same level as the average student at top schools because they aren't. I'm just saying that there are many students at my school and other no-name schools that are just as intelligent as the kids at top schools. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Hey, I guess I'm wrong, then. You really are brilliant. Some of the TAs couldn't solve a few of those problems (Math in particular). I'll come ask Louisiana Tech students for help when I get stuck on my next set, m'kay?

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</p>

<p>Come on. Those problems are definitely challenging, but it's not like nobody here has ever seen problems that difficult. Were you expecting us to gasp and bow down at your feet or something?</p>

<p>The difference between your school and mine (as far as difficulty goes) is that everyone must work through material at that level at yours while pretty much only the engineering and science majors have to at mine. </p>

<p>
[quote]
However, what I am saying is that we should appreciate the fact that some people work harder and learn the material better than others. That doesn't make them 'elitist', that just makes them hard-working students.

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<p>Being a hard worker is great...being an elitist snob is not. There's a huge difference.</p>

<p>I've obviously misunderstood a lot of your posts and got the wrong idea about a lot of what you're trying to say. I'm sure the stress of finals week had a bit to do with it, but yeah, my fault.</p>

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<p>GatorEng23, yeah Harvard's Ma 55 (or whatever it's number is) is certainly the toughest freshman math class in the nation - no contest. There are, however, easier alternatives that Harvard students can take; there are no easier versions of these classes at Caltech, which is why Durran points them out. Could you imagine taking the three of those along with two other full classes as a bio major freshman year? I sure couldn't...those people are truly admirable.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Could you imagine taking the three of those along with two other full classes as a bio major freshman year? I sure couldn't...those people are truly admirable.

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<p>Yea I agree. :)</p>

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<p>its just basic calc.</p>

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<p>[Durran] Do you know where on the web I could find Caltech problem sets for Probability and Random Variables/Random Processes ?</p>