@PurpleTitan , as I mentioned, I didn’t see a marked difference, certainly not worth the difference in cost, between the education 3 of my Ds got at University of Toronto, and that which their sisters received at NYU and Princeton. So, although I’ve heard that comparison to U.S. state schools before here on CC, I don’t necessarily agree that it’s 100% accurate. Yes, it’s true that the costs for international students at Canadian universities is higher than it is for Canadian citizens and residents, although I’m not sure that it’s even comparable to U.S. costs.
@alwaysamom, considering that you didn’t actually have a kid at an American public, I’m not sure how you can make the judgement that what I said is inaccurate. In a respect, all North American research universities are similar, and the top American publics are up there with the Ivies/equivalents/near-Ivies by almost any metric that you care to look at (and generally above NYU in most subjects). Though as a giant private, NYU shares similarities with many American state schools as well.
Likewise, many people who can get in-state tuition to Cal/UMich/UVa (and UCLA/UNC/UT-Austin/UW-Madison as well as certain other programs like engineering/CS at UIUC/GTech/Purdue/UCSD/etc. believe that full-pay at many/all privates isn’t worth the extra cost over in-state tuition at those publics.
BTW, I’ve looked at local and international costs at Canadian unis, and the local costs are comparable to what in-state students pay at many American publics while the international costs are comparable to OOS cost at an American public and full-pay at an American private.
Specifically, I was looking at international tuition in engineering & science at UToronto and McGill.
CS at Waterloo does appear to be cheaper.
@PurpleTitan, you’re right, I didn’t have a kid attend a U.S. public but I think you missed my point. I was talking about the quality of the education received, which I think that most would agree is equivalent/better at schools like NYU and Princeton compared to large publics. The difference, for instance, between NYU and U of T for an Arts and Science student is probably in the vicinity of $50,000 at NYU and $10,000 at U of T. Is NYU worth five times the tuition? I don’t think so. In fact, I know it’s not, having had kids at both and seeing them compare certain classes. My D who attended NYU did so in a specialized program which is the only reason she applied there.
Just out of curiosity, have you had children attend schools in both countries? I ask because I wonder what you are basing your conclusion on as to the comparison of universities in both countries.
In any case, this isn’t really an answer to the question as to why the costs are so exorbitant in the U.S. As I said, I don’t know the answer. I’m not sure anyone actually does! 
Hmm. Tuition at Canadian universities can vary a lot by faculty/school/degree type at the same university, even when the major is virtually the same.
For instance, compare getting a “Bachelor of Arts and Science in Computer Science” at McGill vs. a “Bachelor of Science in Computer Science” at McGill.
Very strange.
(Also, no OS or concurrency course is required for the BA&S in CS from McGill?!? Wut? Looking at the courses, it’s difficult to come to the conclusion that CS, at least at McGill, is as rigorous as CS at a good American public or private.)
And yet another angle to explore:
[QUOTE=""]
Besides, teaching has been for some time a less vital business in British universities than research. It is research that brings in the money, not courses on Expressionism or the Reformation. Every few years, the British state carries out a thorough inspection of every university in the land, measuring the research output of each department in painstaking detail. It is on this basis that government grants are awarded. There has thus been less incentive for academics to devote themselves to their teaching, and plenty of reason for them to produce for production’s sake, churning out supremely pointless articles, starting up superfluous journals online, dutifully applying for outside research grants regardless of whether they really need them, and passing the odd pleasant hour padding their CVs.
[/QUOTE]
Hungry for their fees, some British universities are now allowing students with undistinguished undergraduate degrees to proceed to graduate courses, while overseas students (who are generally forced to pay through the nose) may find themselves beginning a doctorate in English with an uncertain command of the language. Having long despised creative writing as a vulgar American pursuit, English departments are now desperate to hire some minor novelist or failing poet in order to attract the scribbling hordes of potential Pynchons, ripping off their fees in full, cynical knowledge that the chances of getting one’s first novel or volume of poetry past a London publisher are probably less than the chances of awakening to discover that you have been turned into a giant beetle. <<
Well, there is some difference between us and the UK, in terms of Hungry for their fees, some British universities are now allowing students with undistinguished undergraduate degrees to proceed to graduate courses, while overseas students (who are generally forced to pay through the nose) may find themselves beginning a doctorate in English with an uncertain command of the language. Still countries separated by a common language, we not only accept those with uncertain command of the beast, but also expect them to lead their peers with a glorified title a la GSI or TA.
Can’t help tilting at the proverbial windmill of disgrace! 
On a serious note, the article is worth reading!
@alwaysamom, I’m basing my observations on what people online have said about faculty instruction at Canadian unis (if anything, they tend to complain even more about them than American students at state schools do).
I think you’re making a fallacious assumption about the difference in the quality of the education at American publics vs. privates (in short, I think you, like many others, are falling for the marketing hype; not all publics are the same and not all privates are the same). The CS education at UIUC would be just as rigorous as the CS education at Princeton (and more so, it seems, than the CS education at Emory). Granted, there are major differences between different unis and even departments within the same uni in the US.
However, in general, outside of certain specialized programs, I wouldn’t put the education at NYU above the state schools in the upper tier of American publics. If anything, I’d put NYU below them.
I also wouldn’t lump NYU and Princeton in the same group.
The real reason colleges are so expensive? I look somewhat to the parents…and the ratings traps…
Having just finished a year of college tours (easily 20+ schools), they all show off their great dorms, their gourmet food cafeterias, their world-class fitness facilities, their architecturally significant buildings, and so forth. And trust me that even parents who say they don’t care about it, they all ooh and aah. I am included in this.
Add to this the very expensive materials they mail (again, it makes an impression), the small class size (so they can move up in the rankings), the security measures, the shuttles, the expansive clubs…you name it…
It adds up…and colleges who don’t participate find themselves in less demand.
and, yes, there are exceptions…can there be worse dorms than those at georgetown? but its a game of one-upmanship…fueled by the parents and students as well…
BTW, when it comes to student-faculty ratios, they tend to be even higher at Canadian unis than American publics.
For instance, 32.9% of classes at UBC are 50 or more and 23.9% are less than 20. Compare with UDub to the south, where 22.4% of classes are 50 or more and 33.5% are less than 20.
What is there to say about the term I coined as "adjunctivitis’? Could it be the most visible symptom of a problem, or part of the solution?
http://tsl.pomona.edu/articles/2015/3/27/news/6240-uncovering-the-20-part-time-faculty-at-the-5cs
Room for thought? What would be the $$$ value placed on a teaching only “gig” of 4 classes per semester, without service and publishing requirements? And, needless to say, without tenure beyond standard employment contracts?
My Canadian expat friends live/work outside Canada and haven’t paid a penny in Canadian income taxes for over a decade. Yet they send their kids to Canadian public universities cheaply at citizen rates.
Contrast that to American citizens living/working overseas, who pay hefty US federal income taxes, plus state income & local property taxes, and have nothing to show for it in terms of in-state public tuition, as illegal immigrants get a break.
@GMTplus7, that is true.
US nationals who aren’t residents of any state only get a tuition break at the Service Academies (or if they earn it; no tuition at any NJ public if you’re in the NJ National Guard; in-state tuition at A&M if you get any scholarship; in-state tuition at UMinny through the Gold National scholarship which is possible if you are in the top 10% of your class, etc.)
Many LACs are the cure for “adjunctivitis,” though students pay for the cure.
3 reasons… 1) cheap credit from banks to sustain US debt bubble means inflation for education since anyone breathing can get a loan and 2) letting people who can’t afford college into college 3) 1 and 2 together create an artificially high demand on a product that is NOT scarce. If EZ credit were not available prices would drop because without loans, demand would drop. See housing bubble as example, credit pulled away, assets deflate…see?
While the observations of anonymous people on the internet may be interesting, I wouldn’t recommend basing your opinion on them. My guess is that students at every post-secondary institution complain about some of their profs.
I’m not sure where I made that assumption.
Again, curious. Are you a student or a parent? Have you attended NYU?
Neither would I! And that wasn’t my intention. They are obviously very different schools. My point was that having had a child attend each and then three more who attended U of T, the minimal differences in their educational experiences were such that the price difference is ridiculous.
Ultimately, I think the exorbitant costs are there because people will pay them.
Just like there’s a waiting list to purchase $40,000 Hermes handbags; it’s what the market will bear.
@alwaysamom, not quite… Take away EZ credit, and prices would fall to what people COULD pay… As usual the fascist partnership of US government and big banks has created the bubble.
There will always be enough people willing to pay full price for their kids to live in Greenwich Village or on Princeton picture perfect campus.
@alwaysamom, you said
“I was talking about the quality of the education received, which I think that most would agree is equivalent/better at schools like NYU and Princeton compared to large publics.”
That certainly seems to me that
- You are putting Princeton and NYU in the same category.
- You seem to think that American privates are equivalent/better than large American publics.
Can you tell me another way I can interpret your sentence?
I suppose you could fudge and say that you think American privates and American publics are equivalent. Except you also said
"as I mentioned, I didn’t see a marked difference, certainly not worth the difference in cost, between the education 3 of my Ds got at University of Toronto, and that which their sisters received at NYU and Princeton. So, although I’ve heard that comparison to U.S. state schools before here on CC, I don’t necessarily agree that it’s 100% accurate. "
Is there some other way I can read that and not draw the conclusion that you think that the education at large Canadian publics = the education at American privates > the education at large American publics?
BTW, I’m a parent.
We haven’t included the interest free loans that were forgiven for certain faculty and administrators to buy homes or 2nd homes. I still never understood the free car for university presidents. with the salaries the university president makes, I guess it is too much a sacrifice for them to buy their own car like the rest of us.